originally posted by dee
Hi Blue - I am catching up - been away - no have not heard "banned from Argo" - would like the words please.
originally posted by Jeffrey L Watson
Ooops, Blue… too much of the song was posted… this violates copyright laws. Only a short excerpt can be posted. I'm having to delete your post as a result. Sorry.
originally posted by Blue
Trys - no problems, I didn't realize that was the case.
Is there a way I can contact Dee privately to send the lyrics to her?
originally posted by Trys
Only via e-mail. 
originally posted by Blue
Hardy har har, O Gryphon!
originally posted by Andy
Or, you could just post a link to site that has permission to display the copyrighted material.
Banned From Argo
originally posted by dee
Blue and Andy - many thanks for the joint effort - great stuff and worth the wait- will enjoy playing around with the original lyrics.
originally posted by Blue
Thank you, Andy, I did not know about that site. I have bookmarked it now.
Dee, you are welcome, I figured you might have better luck with a Banned from Athera than I do, because I have NO gift for verse.
Trys, again, my apologies for violating the copyright issue. I should know better, but sometimes I get ahead of myself. URGH!!
originally posted by Trys
Blue,
No problem.
Trys
originally posted by Angus
Going back a bit, I agree with Matthew that a "negative absence", in other words could be construed as a "presence" due to the double negative. Two negatives make a positive. This is what happens when math and logic get applied to language, which can be incredibly illogical.
The quote would then be: "the [presence] of kindled energy that accesses the spectrum of unborn possibility."
What the HELL is that, anyway? Energy accesses unborn possibility (to take out the extra words). Could this not be a definition of Life? All life has energy, but not all energy is life. Can there be access to unborn possibility without life? I suppose that the shadows are energy, a negative energy, which then somehow is a positive because it is a negative absence. If this is in fact positive energy, due to its being a negative absence, hold the possibility of life, due to its ability to access the spectrum of unborn possibility, and, uh… oh.
My brain hurts. I think I just explained the Improbability Drive from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
After the Lysaer/forgiveness topic, I thought a tiptoe through the tulips of metaphysics might be fun, and its's a radical turn away from Dr. Dimento and the whole Banned from Argo thing.
originally posted by Trys
quote:Creation?Energy accesses unborn possibility
As to life, what is life? Can there not be life that we would not recognize by the definition that is is generally used (i.e., when I hear anything that discusses the possibility of finding life on the other planets of our solar system I always add the phrase, 'as we know it' for them)? Would an alternative term (and perhaps a better one) in this context be consciousness?
Trys
originally posted by Matthew
I'll hold up my hands and admit that sometimes there are sentences in the books that i struggle to get my head around the bit i was querying being one of them. I know Ms Wurts has been accused of… shall we say 'complicated language'?.. but i don't agree with that, i think her grasp of language spot on its just really hard to read and understand another person's thoughts when you have a single, short sentence trying to define it.
Also apologies i haven't posted much but have hte wife at home so very busy will be back soon though when she's on the night shift =/
originally posted by Jo
Just a thought could the treachery in the Dukes ranks come from any of those who went over to Lysaer's side in Vastmark? They would know everything about the defences and could also have people on the inside. Any thoughts anyone
originally posted by Matthew
who went over to Lysaer's side? i dont have hte book and my memory is really hazy about vastmark.
originally posted by Blue
In WoV, Duke Bransian received a notice from Arithon, stating that he held Bransian's younger brothers as hostages to impel him to get his troops out of the fight, since they were doing a pretty good job of cordoning the territory, leaving Arithon and his allies in constant skirmishes.
Bransian stormed into Lysaer's camp, and told Lysaer that he was withdrawing his troops. However, a troop captain who had served with Keldmar, said that he had seen the damage Arithon was capable of inflicting first hand, and they should NOT withdraw, because that would mean that Arithon would be free to wreak havoc where ever if not contained or killed. Bransian snarled that he WAS withdrawing his support, because he did not want his brothers killed, and that he was determined to rescue Keldmar, Parrien and Mearn himself and kill Arithon.
The alliance with Alestron was important for Lysaer not only because of the highly trained and skilled troops, but because Alestron's banner meant that Lord Erlien's forces might hesitate to attack fellow clansmen, or at least men who were feal to a legal clan authority (Bransian). Bransian's troops were escorting the supply trains into Vastmark, and the Shandians either did not raid them, or at least took care not to harm fellow clansmen.
Lysaer accepted the loyalty of this troop captain and the men who had decided to follow him, and Bransian rode off, highly peeved.
originally posted by Matthew
ahh thanks interesting… they'd have the knowledge maybe… but i doubt theyd be welcomed back with open arms.
originally posted by Jo
Just a thought though they might have had to accept them back as Mearn etc are still supposed to be supporting Lysaer. I hope Havish escapes Lysaer's war but I doubt it.
originally posted by Blue
On the other hand, Jo, even though Alestron was going through with the masquerade of the Alliance, it does not seem likely that Bransian would have welcomed any of them back. The charges he, as their Liege could level against them, could amount to any one or more of the following:
1. Dereliction of duty
2. Desertion
3. Failure to follow direct command of the Liege
4. Oath breaking
5. Treason
Too, in FP, Mearn does not seem overly eager to come into contact with the captain in charge of the group he encounters after warning Arithon of the Koriani plot. Namely because the guy knew him well, and would be able to blow Mearn's cover story about being a Hanshire courier. Mearn did NOT trust this guy. He had no idea if the guy would play along with him, for old time's sake, or turn him in as a spy or traitor against the Alliance.
I also suspect that once Bransian and his brothers returned to Alestron, they would have made changes in their defensive and offensive capabilities, not only to arm themselves against an eventual siege, but also to render any intel these men could have given Lysaer about Alestron's capabilities, strategies and tactics worthless.
originally posted by Hunter
Another interesting tidbit from the synopsis on the Australian Harper Collins Site.
"… closest to Arithon's heart. The only way he can help them is by using his mage talent to invoke ancient magics, at great risk to himself."
(link removed)
He's already leveraged Paravian magecraft, has been trained by Davien… drake magic anyone?
originally posted by Hunter
From Harper Collins UK synopsis:
"…Davien the betrayer is unable to intercede to save his colleagues and so will be forced to invoke the dire terms of an ancient and most secretive bargain."
So… HC UK has Davien invoking ancient and secretive bargains, HC Aust/NZ has Arithon invoking ancient magics… that's a lot of invoking.
Hmm… wondering what other texts Arithon stumbled across in Davien's library? Drake language is pictorial if I remember correctly. Would it have been written down?