Koriani Tools

originally posted by R’is’n

In my latest reread it struck me just how ruthless Morriel is, and how well she exploited Lirenda’s character flaw of not knowing her own heart, paving the way for Lirenda to become another one of Morriel’s ‘flawed’ tools, like Elaira.

It seems that Lirenda’s never going to get over herself - even if she’s ever released from imprisonment (imagine if it was Arithon/Elaira doing it!)

Somehow I feel that Lysaer WOULD find a way out of his hatred, given the freedom from the curse. But Lirenda…? Intellectually, I hope she finds a way out of it, but I FEEL that she’ll still wish vengeance on Arithon, blaming him, rather than looking at herself.

It’s going to be fascinating to see what else Morriel cooks up, using people’s ‘foibles’. And fascinating to see how Elaira uses being used to thwart Morriel’s plans.

originally posted by Susan C

I don't know that Lysaer would find a way out of his hatred given freedom from the curse. Lysaer was very willing to hate Arithon when they first were exiled into the Red Desert. I think he chooses to hate Arithon rather than face the truth about his father's hatred and his own poor choices. I know he did attempt to get to know Arithon before the curse, but I don't think he would be willing to accept the responsibility for any of his actions if the curse were removed. He needs to justify his actions and we have learned the curse can be controlled somewhat by conscious choice. Arithon learned how in the Kewar Tunnel when he had to accept responsibility for his own actions. He had to face the truth about his choices. I don't think Lysaer can do that if the curse were removed. That is his character flaw.

originally posted by R’is’n

Susan: Yeah, I’m dithering over it actually - would he, wouldn’t he? After all, that’s WHY the F7 cast him out - because he wouldn’t let go. Neither did he ‘let go’ at Ath’s hostel, both in the first Arc, and

SPOILER!!!

at the second hostel where Kevor and Ellaine eventually found refuge, and asked him to join them.

But as reader, I wonder, is my loss of hoping they will be redeemed, about them as story characters, or a reflection of something in my own character? *grin* Janny’s books make you go dizzy when you think like that!!!

originally posted by Susan C

That's why I love Janny's books-They make you think… When I finish reading, I spend a great deal of time thinking about what may happen or may not happen.

originally posted by R’is’n

Lirenda is also mad at Arithon, because she feels he is responsible for thwarting her ambitions to be Prime Matriarch.

Morriel ‘forsaw’ that Arithon would cause an irregular breach in the succession of the Prime Matriarchy, which gave Lirenda a legitimate reason to pursue him. That was so devious!

Yet also, so human. That sort of experience can create such shame - but also Lirenda CAN learn from it - if she looks at Morriel/Seldie’s role objectively, as a kind of teacher (albeit a rather unpleasant one.) Lirenda chooses not to - yet… yet… yet…?

:smiley:

originally posted by Auna

Both Lysaer and Lirenda are strong in their personality flaws. It will be really hard for either of them to break out of that cycle. I've known blamer/victims before, and they typically need to deal with the childhood issue they are stuck on before they can move forward. So much easier to just stay in your rut :stuck_out_tongue: Can't wait to see what eventually happens to these two.

originally posted by ssserpent

I think that once Lysaer is freed from the curse ( as I believe he will be), he's going to see all his past actions through a different eye, plunging himself in the same state of guilty regret as Arithon before Kewar Tunnel.

originally posted by Cheryl Detmer

I love the way Arithon is defending Lysaer in this book to Traithe. I think he knows the curse is doing this and that nobody is perfect. It's his gift of compassion that makes him this way. I thought for awhile there Lirenda would help out Arithon. I'm still not going to cheer for Lysaer or Lirenda but I understand how they are the way they are. I still think Lysaer can be saved. I hope so. Traitor's Knot is one of the best in the series but they all are wonderful for different reasons.

originally posted by Auna

Lysaer still has that annoying tendency to justify his actions even without the curse. I don't think it's going to be so easy for him to change, but I do feel sorry for him if he ever does.

originally posted by Cheryl Detmer

I don't think we knew him long enough to know things about him before the curse. I guess we do know how he's been described. I have some sympathy for him in that his father was very strict from what Arithon says. I'm glad Arithon is aware of all of that. At least one of them knows what's going on. grin