originally posted by Drakedouay
Hey Janny, Hello everybody.
I'm a newbie.
I will now attempt to win friends and influence people by strongly disagreeing with somebody in my first post. I'm strongly disagreeing with George first.
SPOILER**ALERT**SPOILER**SPOILER***WARNING**SPOILER***SPOILER
The beginning and the first 150 pages of TRHC are in my opinion,er… brilliant. The microcosm slowly becomes the macrocosm. In terms of things, the individual, other people, places/landscape and the emotions, particularly the emotions etc.
I liked that. Blooming astounded and somewhat enthralled, I was.
If it's not too pert of me,George, I reckon that if you ever re-read the story and if you take the ' going for a quite stroll and looking around you, a bit ' approach,… the nature of the beginning of the story might grow on you .
Now I'm disagreeing with you Ms Wurtz. I've got the right. I'm a fan, you see …( grin)
Janny, you said ;
QUOTE:
(spoiler!)
"Anja's final (ruler's) choice - to have Mykkael BE what he was, and not bend that for her personal need, which would have lessened what he WAS - that was the triumph. What he WAS had saved her kingdom. To hang on, past that moment, would have debased and destroyed the one thing that had held the line. "
END QUOTE :
It seems to me that given Mykkaels fundamental heroic response regarding any phenomena in his life or reality - be it a glass of wine or a demon or an aching leg - nothing can lessen WHAT he is or CAN be.
Death may 'end' Mykkael or what he is…maybe, but it cannot lessen it .
Given WHAT and WHO Mykkael has chosen to be, he cannot be bent to anyones will or need. He can serve the need and will of others, but always for his own reasons and not always in ways that those others are "comfortable " with.
You created the character Janny ! ( Grin )
It would have been interesting to see Mykkaels heroic response to the many ' phenomena ' regarding him becoming a candidate for "Royal Consort." And the consequences of his actions…
haha
Mykkael had already demonstrated that he could be true to himself… and victorious regarding all consequences. And victorious regarding all consequences of that refusal to compromise.
Did Ajna think that Mykkael could be broken by anything ? Did she think that anything could make him compromise regarding his honour…royal consort or not ?
It appears that she did.
Mykkael becomes who and what he is through honest and pure - in terms of clarity - response regarding his life, reality and sooner or later…all phenomena in his reality. Given the nature of his motivation and his response, he can never be lessened by his actions or their consequences. Whatever they may be.
More to the point, I think that such a person would always be changing and evolving without compromising… becoming more Real and Truer ' versions ' of himself/herself all the time.
We would never know the whole story about such a person. (Slyly)
Did Mykkael love Anja with anything like the passion he felt for the Effandi princess ?
If he loved Ajna with that kind of passion, he would have let nothing stand in his way and he would have made sure that this served the kingdom. In short he would have got the girl…in alignment with his interpretation of honour.
Why did nobody consult him about this loving ( Ruler's) choice ?
Anja's a bit of a hero in my book. Did her (ruler's) choice honour her ? … or did it ' lessen ' her ? We have already seen a demonstration of Anja's character when she made her ( ruler's) choice.
But what about her honour ?
Did Ajna love Myykael ? Why would there have to be a contradiction or disharmony between Ajna honouring her love for Mykkael and her kingdom and honouring him ?
Why would there have to be an intrinsic contradiction or disharmony regarding Ajna honouring her love for herself and her love for Mykkael and the kingdom and honouring
him ? Everybody knows what happens when an individual surrenders to passion. But what happens when an individual " honours " it ?
Why would there have to be a contradiction or disharmony regarding Ajna being true to herself and being true to Mykkael and being true to her kingdom ?
What would have happened if Ajna had listened to the voice of her compassion for herself, her compassion for Myykael and her compassion for the kingdom ?.. and anything else
that she needed to be compassionate about ?
What would happen if Arithon s'Ffalen directed his COMPASSION towards and
at…himself ?
All the time.
What would happen in his life ? ( slyly)
Back to Mykkael ;
Any populace in this demon-afflicted world, surely might be persuaded to accept a king with Demon-bashing credentials? And the fact that he was not of the caucasian persuasion
could be used as a feather in the kingdoms cap, as opposed to a black eye…
EG: Our king is Mykkael , bane of demons. Of course he looks different. Sheesh! What did you expect ? He is the bane of demons. He is the vessel of gods. Those whom the gods choose are always peculiar.
Our king is dark and terrible and magical .
Your king is a greasy slob with a stupid moustache…etc
The bottom line is that if Myykael had chosen to become royal consort, he would have done so on his terms. His terms alone.
In my opinion, you told more than the story of the character of a warrior, set against the moral pressures imposed by the ruler. From a humble readers (grin) perspective you also
told the story of a person who evolved his character and became what he needed to be, through being true to himself in spite of all moral and physical pressures from 'without' and 'within'. And he was victorious.
There's more.
hawhaw
A lot of the other characters in the story seemed to be far more than literary devices or ' props' or " backdrop ". But I " knew " that if I stepped off the main " path " of the story
and followed any one of these characters about; that their " myth" would unfold.
In my opinion you told more than Mykkaels story…
Thanks Janny.
No pressure. ( Big grin) .
Best wishes,
Martin,
or Drake or Mr Douay , if you prefer
( Smile)
originally posted by Trys
Welcome to the board Martin.
originally posted by R’is’n
Welcome to the board indeed - food for thought too.
I just wanted to say, about the personal choice losing out to 'ruler' choice.
I think of the relationship between Anja and Mykkael as reaching something beyond the definitions of 'friends' or 'consort'. The decision in the end, was one of altruism, of knowing and loving each other so well, that it freed them. Mykkael from being the vessel of fate, and Anja, to help her become fit to rule.
Sometimes we meet people for a short time, develop a deep instant connection, which leads to insight that helps us move on with our lives. It shows us how deeply we can connect to others already in our lives, brings up hidden talents, restores us to lost parts of ourselves.
Certainly, I've experienced a few earthly guides in this way. Some people experience it as intensely as if it were an affair.
I enjoyed reading about their their relationship and how it was fulfilled as far as it could be in that life, and could therefore restore themselves and their people from the lessons learned.
originally posted by Trys
It is also a biologicial reaction when placed in danger to react in a way that would/could result in the perpetuation of the species. That is a strong physical attraction between these two could have been initiated/enhanced by the constant, imminent threat of death. I would think Anja, being fairly young, would succumb to the urges but would misinterpret that biological imperative as an emotional bond starting to form.
In the case of Mykkael, my thought is that his reaction to Anja would have both the biological imperative and the memories of what he went through with Orannia but his more mature viewpoint asserted itself at the end and he recognize the attraction for what it was… or more importantly, what it was not - true love.
Just my opinion.
Trys
originally posted by Bec
I agree with Trys
I felt that, although Anja was infatuated with her "hero" Mykkael knew that it was not "true love". I am sure that his sense of honour and duty would have caused him to accept being Anja's consort if she had asked. BUT I don't think this is what he would have chosen. At the end we are also made aware of the love that binds him and Orannia and with her healing the guilt he felt at what happened to her can start to heal as well.
Just my opinion 
originally posted by R’is’n
Trys: forgive me, but… biological response to danger? I found that very funny!
A kind of "If you were the last man and I were the last woman in the world…" scenario…
But you do make a good point about youthful infatuation and his painful memories.
During Mykkael's healing - the decision to part ways was said to make the valley ring with the sound of altruistic choice. This was what led me to reconsider the relationship between them as a higher form of it.
originally posted by Trys
R’is’n,
It's not an abnormal response for people in 'fight or flight' situations to experience physical arousal. Just a reaction for the species to perpetuate itself. It is usually the case that there's no way to act on it nor would having to wait nine months for any result solve the immediate problem. But the body reacts as the body reacts. 
Trys
originally posted by Myranda Rose
I think there are a few things that could be explored in the same setting though - Perhaps the political wranglings that allowed the sorcerer to take over the young crown prince and his whole kingdom, as long as it were a subtle thing it could be interesting. Or perhaps a war between the sorceror lead forces and the vizier's forces, perhaps with some intrigue or sub plots of the live of oringary people not yet consumed by demons?
I appologise for any typing errors I've made the mistake of typing while very tired.
originally posted by R’is’n
Trys
Interesting fact about women under intense stress, (as Anja would have been) it often stops the ovulation process. This is nature's way to ensure that when children are born, they are safe, secure and able to be fed and nurtured.
One of the possible reasons for the drop in fertility rates, is high environmental stress.
originally posted by Trys
R’is’n,
Seems to the two biological reactions are somewhat opposite to each other.
Trys
originally posted by R’is’n
That's why I think the first one is more emotional for survival (bonding helps people work better together?) than it is for procreation.
The baby booms come AFTER the war…?
originally posted by Drakedouay
Trys and Roisin; thanks for your welcome.(grin)
Howdy Bec. Good day to you Myranda Rose. (grin again)
Why are we wrangling about whether Mykkael and Anja were
in love or not ?
That question is is easily settled.
Ahem.
Er…Janny. Were Mykkael and Ajna in love or not ? Or was it infatuation or a " higher octave of platonic romance. " ?
Drakedouay -
You Asked.
Realise that MY take as author is not the only take - this story now belongs to its readers - so - whatever you feel is IT.
Were they are weren't they in my mind matters very little, with that regard - but if you want to know what "I" felt - the question isn't simple yes or no. There are many forms of love, and degrees.
Was Anja in love with Mykkael - yes, but would it last? She Was very young, and yet, grew enough in the story to realize that her need for a warrior king was OVER. She was able to make the wise choice for the long term and let go of that intensity when the need for it was done. It is LIKELY that her natural common ground is more suited to the young princeling.
Mykkael - yes he did love Anja, absolutely, but the question no reader has thought to ask themselves - in his love for Anja, did he love Orannia MORE?
I did not see his return to her as a guilt trip for her fate in his company - not a bit - I trusted his innate abillity to choose his mate from his strengths. Orannia I did see as a "match" for his warrior spirit - but it's not very likely that a reader could "second guess" this from the story as written since very little of Orannia got on the page, except for his take at her plight…but between the lines, he had to be "kicked out" of the nomads tribe to get on with his life…this event long after he got her home and was not needed to secure her survival. That says a very great deal about the depth of his feelings.
The augury did read that IF Anja kept him for herself, he would not have held to life. His own awareness of being "misplaced" in her world was accurate and not enough to hold his stake in that future. He said, of himself, many times - that he did not have her gift of peace. And that is what Sessalie thrives on.
originally posted by motley
quote:but between the lines, he had to be "kicked out" of the nomads tribe to get on with his life…this event long after he got her home and was not needed to secure her survival. That says a very great deal about the depth of his feelings.
My word, on that note I think I'll reread TRHC again. I'd half got there, but I did think that Orannia was a bit of a 'happy ending'. I had not considered this before.
Incidentally, I think Orannia's rescue would also make a good stand alone story… *hopeful.grin*
It did seem that his fascination with Anja was an overlay on a deeper issues that Mykkael carried from his rescue of Orannia. I also saw that definitely, the two were not suited, that Anja quite wisely let him go. Mykkael as a primped and pampered consort would have been disastrous.
It also helps to see Mykkael in the light of serving as a chaotic, cathartic force, in this case, as a warrior, and makes more sense why he couldn't continue on.
What you said about the narrative ALSO belonging to the readers: Thanks for that.
originally posted by juliana
The Autonomic Nervous System is made up of the Sympathetic System(Fight or Flight) and the Parasympathetic System(Feed and Breed).
Women would not physiologically desire sex during periods of high stress or perceived threat. Hard to run away or fight if you're pregnant or taking care of small children.
I imagine Anja's invitiation for intimacy did not come from sexual arrousal.
originally posted by skeoke
Juliana ~
Hmmm…
I must be mis-wired somewhere…
originally posted by R
skeoke: there's stress of daily stuff… and then there's run and hide from certain death stress… I know that it FEELS like you're going to die when you arrive at work and they pile on the tasks… but I don't think it's the same thing… so the occasional office indiscretion is understandable…
*duck*
originally posted by Cheryl Ruckel
WOW!!! One of your best. Thought it moved slowly at first and then WHAM I was hooked. You designed a wondeful fantasy.
Keep working on the sequel to Stormwarden…
Thanks again for a wonderful escape!!!
originally posted by Nurgle
this is one of my fav books, would love more one of books like this from Janny in the future!
Cheryl Rockel, welcome here! and thanks for the lovely words.
Nurgle - welcome here, too, I would LOVE to do more books like this one and actually have one (different characters, different world) underway and fairly well along. When the series is done, I hope to finish it.
Meantime, if more people are made aware of Hell's Chasm, that significantly adds incentive.
Please, if you loved this book - rate and review it, it REALLY helps other readers find it.