Thoughts on Lysaer..

originally posted by Hunter

I wonder, given the intent of why Lysaer (or his father) wanted to be trained, whether Rauven would have sanctioned Lysaer for training whatever age he turned up?

originally posted by Leonie

Just a few thoughts on Lysaer. I've just started rereading CotM, and the things that have stood out most are Lysaer's constant self involvement and self deception. Even though he struggles with trying to (initially) understand his clan people, he still is unable to look at the reconciliation of towns and clans without self interest.

CotM page 252 (reprinted paperback bought in Australia) "The question hit hard. Driven to see into himself with uncanny depth and clarity, struck naked before his own judgement, Lysaer peceived that the confusion that had harried him since exile held a core of ugly truth. No longer did the glamour of noble purpose veil fact: that his brave resolve to Traithe in Althain's storeroom had been rooted in vanity and pride. He had renounced a difficult path of study and vowed instead to redress the wrongs of a kingdom for his own personal glory."

Immediately after this he avoids having to expose his feelings about Daon Ramon Barrens by making an excuse about leaving his heart behind on Dascen Elur.

Repeatedly we see not a character that is strong in its convictions, but one constantly torn to persistently make himself look good in front of other people - and constantly refusing to acknowledge his true inadequacies - even though acknowledgement of his true self would allow his true strengths to develop.

To me, Lysaer's character is about choice - yes Arithon has his moments of submission to the curse as well, but never willingly. Lysaer almost never chooses to resist the curse driven impulses, the habit of "I must look good" drives him even more constantly than the curse. Time after time we see his choices made for self interest and disguised as "the greater good".

originally posted by Leonie

I have my doubts that Lysaer would have been trained in Rauven or even perhaps if he would have coped with it. The descriptions of Arithon's training while in Kewar tunnel make me wonder if Lysaer could have coped with the discipline, control and honesty required.

I suspect the mages of Rauven would not have trained him simply because he was so much under his father's thumb anyway.

And on my last post - we see also in CotM that Lysaer has already popped up with major self deception in regard to his mother's motives for leaving - check out the bit when Arithon rummages through his memories for something to goad him with on their first meeting. He sees his father using violence against his mother, hears him deriding her, immediately after he hears her defending him from the abuses his father would force upon him. Yet we know despite this Lysaer focusses not on his father's obvious wrongs, but only the fact that his mother left him.

originally posted by juliana

Remember that Lysaer was 3 years old when his mother left- she could have taken him with her to protect him from his father but she didn't.In his mind's eye he was abandoned by her and
left alone to deal with his father's rages. Where was the balance formally supplied by his mother's love?

originally posted by Myranda

I have a theory about Lysaer…

The curse has twisted and controlled almost every descision he has made, he's butched many, ordered the killings of more. He lacks the compassion of Arithon, but he DOES have the inbred sense of justice.

If he survives long enough to be rid of the curse, his sense of justice would mean he would have to destroy himself as an act of atonement and justice.

As such I don't think the Fellowship would try to break his curse, as thier actions would directly lead to his death. Instead I think they might try banishing him.

Oorrrr!!.. Lysaer has lost every major war so far, he may have one small battles, but he has suffered wholesale defeat time after time after time. His people have a defensible city, they have great armies and they have the rule of law… they don't actually need Lysaer "alive". A martyr is just as powerful as a figurehead. With a careful PR campaign he could be offed with ease…
or mutilated and banished so no-one would recognise him - then he'd be free for the curse to drag him across Athera in a conflagration of fire and light and rage… How would Arithon and Lysaer fare against the curse face to face, with no armies to pull them apart? (Personally I think Arithon would triumph - grand conjoury and elemental power is likely to beat just elemental power.)

What though of magic? Lysaer may have been burnt by the touch of necromancy, but the curse is very strong, very subtle… And even on an even footing the two can't kill each other, but Arithon has a great advantage in his use of conjoury - its likely Lysaer would immolate himself without realising it.

Whatever the possibilities, I think Lysaer will have some VERY hard times soon - Janny has very cleverly painted a world where justice features strongly…

One Clan born king sits on an Atheran thrown, the heir to another must flee, And Lysaer poses a threat to there ever being any other Clan born kings - he himself will never be a true king.
So the Paraviens can take only one course.

Hmmm - there will be war, the Paravians With thier clan born allies, the Fellowship against Lysaer and the town born… and the Koriathain…
That will be a heart rending section I feel… Arithon on one side, and Elaira on the other.
And the war has to happen - the Town born will not accept the paravian rule, or autority, the paravians will not forgive all that the townborn have done.

Janny has a power, to make the reader emote, to feel the loss of friends, or loved ones of the characters - the battle is almost guaranteed (unless something really drastic happens)… Lysaer will doubtlessly fight paravians and lose his humanity - the battle, the carnage, the chaos could attract the greater part of the mistwraith - the Fellowship had a hard enough time distracting a scant few wraiths… all of them will be unstopable… or with they? A sorceror who is also the Master bard, who also has control of elemental shadow - and the entire Fellowship once again walking the face of Athera… hmmmm.

originally posted by Hannah

As such I don't think the Fellowship would try to break his curse, as thier actions would directly lead to his death.

Presupposing Lysaer would without doubt try to kill himself for "atonement and justice" (though I think his death would negligibly serve those purposes), if the Fellowship foresaw that he would off himself, it would still be Lysaer's free choice to do so. So I don't think that itself would be enough for them to leave him Cursed. If the Fellowship found a workable way to "break" the Curse.

I don't think either the Paravians or the Fellowship would go to war against town-born mankind in general. It wouldn't be much of a war would it, as the humans would very quickly have their asses handed to them. Instead, Asandir explained what the consequences would be if events got too far out of hand. And the consequence would probably make mankind wish there had been just a simple war…

Hannah