originally posted by Annette
And although I also also might have been a bit miffed we never caught up on all the past events, neither has Arithon yet. I would rather wait and uncover some of the more interesting/painful memories as he does, and see how that changes things, than have some uninvolved character just give us all the details and spoil the discovery. For a two book ark near the end of the series I suppose we should have expected Janny to set the second one up with all the explosive events, past and present likely to leave us gasping. I also did not mind leaving the more traumatic memories till the second half, since it made Initiate's Trial more fun to read and less like a trial of tears requiring a box of tissues handy. I love Peril's Gate, but one of them per arc is enough for me.
And speaking of Stormed Fortress, when I went back and read through the past topics (I am only a recent convert) I seem to recall originally we were not going to get Stormed Fortress, but Janny could not fit everything into Traitor's Knot. I would have liked to have read what was added and changed and had a chance to be explored more, because I also really liked Stormed Fortress, and thought it was a great end to the third arc. I am expected the end of arc four to be even better, so not fussed about waiting for it.
originally posted by Raelene Monahan
Hi all!
I absolutely loved it, could not stop reading it - literally did not sleep until I finished it. An intriguing journey from start to finish. And I agree with everyone, my anticipation (i.e. suspense) is whetted to a fine sharp edge of impatience for the next volume, so well done on that score Janny! (though I do admit to feeling that throwing a few knives -dull for safety- for that accomplishment would relieve some of the burning tension 
)
Some of my favourite moments, for a variety of reasons - uplifting, tear-jerking or in uproarious laughter - include the rediscover of Arithon's identity in Caithwood by Tysan's clansmen, the defense of Daliana by Traithe, Dakar and Lysander, the grace of Elaira's escape from Koriathain intrigue through her healers heart, and especially the sorrowful threads guiding Gestry's fate, though tear-jerking it was incredibly uplifting and humbling.
originally posted by Kam
Janny
I'm delighted you've released your novels on Kindle. I've heard that switching to electronic format isn't always favourable for the author - mainly because of the pricing (to give you guys some idea: new release physical copy for me is ~AUD$50-60 compared to digital $17.)
Of course, this was a different author talking about why she was initially keen for electronic and then got disheartened when she heard her life's work would have to be sold at such a discounted rate to be attractive.
I know this is a little off tangent and isn't strictly about the novels (I have plently of thoughts about that too!) but what were your thoughts on releasing for digital, Janny? Was it something you got to decide or the publishers just went ahead with it? I saw all your books are available for digital now which is just awesome for portability's sake.
Although the bibliophile in me would probably still end up trying to get a physical copy; they just look so good on the bookshelf.
Since this is a thread about the novels, I should probably write something more relevant as well: Lysaer is quite awesome now. He's de-throned Arithon as my number one character of interest. I find myself cheering for Daliana and telling her to just kiss him already! So much tension in this room!
I don't really understand is why Tarens would murder that diviner in cold blood. I mean, they need him and his brother around to keep the farm, right? That was why they got Arithon to come in and save his brother… but then he runs off and stabs that guy in daylight with witnesses all around? I don't see how he thought he could get away with that. And without him, they'd lose the farm anyway. It seems a bit strange. I can usually understand a character's motives, but this just didn't make any sense to me. Not to mention that actually murdering someone is a huge step for a farm boy.
I can't help but think if the last arc ended with Seldie in her moment of triumph, the Fellowship brought to heel, Arithon betrayed and imprisoned, free wraiths EVERYWHERE, my mind would have blown. It would be like George Martin's Red Wedding. As it stands, I haven't seen Morriel/Seldie succeed with any of her attempts to capture Arithon on screen, so I find myself waiting for the Deus Ex Paravia. I can't quite take Seldie seriously, even though her machinations are inhuman and her methods can halt the breath in my lungs for sheer cruelty.
Also, Teylia reminded me of this poem: http://www.rice-boy.com/order/index.php?c=116 What a tragic character; the forgotten martyr! I'm sure she'll come back into play again though. Her role in this seems too great to be brushed aside so easily.
Kam, to answer your direct question about specifically about digital rights. I had to part with them to get the import deal to return the books to the USA. This was an OK trade - first, because HarperCollins did pay me an extra fee to BUY digital rights for the few early volumes that explicitly said rights were mine. (when such things were negotiable) and because I am focused solely on writing, trying to do digital rights myself for such a huge project would be distraction itself.
I believe it is import to reach readers, period - and if they want the books in portable format, this is all to the good. I hope that the paper books will STILL be supported, too, because having the works only appear in an ephemeral format makes them less visible (and subjects them to the phases and trends of electronic devices - I'd HATE to see the works lost as such trends and devices change format!!!)
I do get a royalty for digital sales, and they count as numbers, when legitimately bought, never fear. The fact that digital readers have search functions should make it quite Easy to access the nuances in this series - past scenes can be looked up quicker, or notes taken, or bits highlighted. So in some ways, the digital world opens a new avenue of access never before available to readers who don't have time for many indepth re-reads.
Also, some devices allow other readers to access such highlights and footnotes, which may make some of the more obscure angles of this series a common body of knowledge - this development could be interesting, and might make the series more widely appealing, who knows???
Keep your thoughts coming, I'm sure other readers here will enjoy discussing your points.
There are discussion boards, too, open to digital readers - I can hope that creates yet another avenue to expose newcomers to the books.
There are plans in the works, now, to (very soon) allow folks to buy digital copies of the satellite short stories sited in the Athera universe digitally from THIS website. Stay tuned.
Eventually I'd like to see all of my backlist books digitally available - I do have my eyes on several options, just waiting to be sure they'll pan out.
originally posted by Annette
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Would that be new satellite stories Janny, or the ones already published? I have Under Cover of Darkness (The Sundering Star) in epub format from the Kobo bookshop. But would love digital versions of all of them, would like new short stories set in the Athera universe even more.
Kam, Tarens never thought he would get away with killing the diviner, he was trying to get himself killed to protect the footloose herbalist, Efflin and Kerelie. The diviner would have gone after the foot loose herbalist next, so Tarens was trying to help him get away by choosing the Diviner. The croft was lost the moment the True Sect turned up on the doorstep looking to arrest someone. Tarens knew they would have found him guilty of consorting with a sorcerer, he did not want his confession condemning anyone else. And apparently the True Sects methods of extracting confessions is pretty horrific, so that might also have had some effect on Tarens's decision.
If you read through the start of Chapter III again looking for Tarens's motives you will find them there.
originally posted by Annette
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That was start of the first subchapter Man-hunt actually, rather than main chapter III.
originally posted by Kam
Thank you for the time to talk about this, Janny! I'm surprised that you had to give up your digital rights - I'll admit I've been a bit out of touch here but did I read you correctly: you had to give up digital rights to get the books at all released for USA???
I'm very curious as to what might be the possible ramifications of such a thing; I had no idea that the publishers valued digital rights so highly that it's a valid bargaining chip or that they could even be dealt with separately (although it makes sense in retrospective). And it seems like this has changed now, so the publishers own more than before? Mind boggling. Naturally I don't know anything about this mysterious world of copyright and publishers versus authors, but it's pretty fascinating to hear about it.
As an advocate of digital formats, I still don't believe that books will ever get completely replaced. This is something deeper than just convenience and price - despite the identical subject matter, print and digital are actually different mediums altogether and how we process that information is completely different. I'm sure you've noticed that reading large chunks of text on your screen is "painful" and yet we do it frequently on print without trouble. I don't really know the psychological reasons but people tend to skim text on screens, so there's all these extra useability variables when it comes to digital. Sure, I'm applying web design versus print design rules, but it's the same between Kindle/iPhone screens and books.
For myself, I've read the book on my Kindle app on my ipad (which is about the same size for a book page) but I don't feel like I've processed it. It's hard to explain, but I feel like I've basically skimmed over the whole novel and haven't properly digested it as I would have if I sat down with a physical copy. I'm hoping that publishers (or whoever decides these kind of things) still keep in mind that despite the seemingly simple issue, it's really not and they won't just reduce it to a matter of cost and convenience to rule one out.
As for the researching and rereading part, I actually think having a physical book is better for that - nothing quites beats being able to flip between the index or map with ease. Despite the convenience of being able to slip the entire tomb into my jean pocket, I just don't think any fan could go past having the book on their desk.
Anyway, that's just my 5c. I am extremely pleased to hear that you'll be releasing the short stories as well! Pleased is a bit of an understatement because I was gibbering in joy.
And thank you, Annette for explaining that! I went back to read it and it makes a lot more sense if Tarens already knew the farm was lost regardless.
originally posted by Annette
Personally I think nothing can compare to curling up to enjoy a real book. I have not gone in for any of the little hand held devices, mainly for cost reasons, but I do not think it would ever be the same. Definitely cannot curl up with my PC and it makes too much noise anyway. Now I have never actually been bothered to look for a passage in a book before the WoLaS books, but for so many clues I might want to hunt up, no matter how many notes I take I can never find what I am looking for in the real books, the digital ones I can just search and the PC does all the hard work for me. Even if I am not sure what exactly I am looking for I have a fair chance of finding it in a digital version. Now if one of the popular digital formats would just let us put all the books in one folder and search the lot at the same time it would be perfect.
originally posted by bradly wyn
Spoiler…
The biggest disconnect I had to start the book was that characters kept talking about Arithon being betrayed at the same time they were making references to Athir, and making it seem like what happened with his daughter lead directly to the betrayal.
I finally felt better when the small mention about the wedding was made so I didn't feel like I was completely insane, but it wasn't very clear to me why people were so pissed about Athir. (Some of this is likely that I didn't end up rereading Stormed Fortress like I try to do before a new book comes out, it's probably been 2 years since I have).
I also was annoyed by the conflict that characters seem to have between each other and wanting to punch each other out. I know it's been there in the books previously but for some reason I just couldn't get past it this book.
Not to be completely negative, I did enjoy that Asandir now has an immortal mount, Dakar as usual, Havish playing a pivotal role in Athera for a change, Tarens channeling Jieret, and Seshkrozchiel completely destroying that inn and Davien's conversation with Dakar.
Can't wait for Morriel to finally bite it next book. The evil witch.
originally posted by Annette
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I think what happened to Teylia was a direct consequence of the oath of debt rather than the other way around. Without the oath of debt to the Koriathain Teylia could have still freed Arithon, but perhaps she would not have joined the order, or died in Arithons place. Not absolutely sure about the hostage situation, but without the oath of debt what grounds would Selidie/Morriel have had to ask for a hostage?
I thought the consequences of Athir were important, the price of that oath of debt was after all the Fellowships vow of noninterference that resulted in Teylia's death, could still result in Arithon's death and seems to have given Selidie/Morriel enough freedom to break the compact the way she is going. Considering it was the Sorcerer's who apparently arranged such a horrific imprisonment in order to save Athera, it did seem a bit of a betrayal that they would then allow Selidie to kill Arithon. But the oath of debt had to be paid, so the Fellowship cannot help Arithon.
It will be interesting to see in Destiny's Conflict just how Selidie/Morriel managed to get her hands on Arithon in the first place. I find it hard to believe Eriegal would have handed him over to the Koriathain. Now I could believe Bransian s’Brydion would fall for yet another Koriani plot. Maybe Eriegal betrayed Arithon thinking he was handing him over to the s’Brydion.
originally posted by Nurgle
after lurking for many years time to post
Thoroughly enjoyed this volume having sat out in the glorious sun downunder tanning and reading!
Poor Arithon when he gets to reflect on his life one day is sure going to be sick of all the running he has had to do. The new Dakar was fun to read about… his effort to thwart Seldie at the end was most amusing, but we need more boozing and whoring from him, hopefully he hasnt lost all the fun that is Dakar!
A re read is a must on this one to pick up snippets im sure i missed on the first read, and hopefully we arent left waiting too long for the next book.
In a time where fantasy authors with vision and story telling skills are sorely lacking, its great to see Jannys works still hold true.
originally posted by Kam
Boozing and whoring Dakar? @_@ I hope not; not because I have anything against how he was but I felt that Dakar's vices was a result of his irresponsibility and cowardice. The joy of reading this series is watching how the characters grow and Dakar is my absolute favorite character because of this. How far he has come from the bumbling selfish man in /Curse/!
There's a quote by Davien to this line, something about even though it may need 500 years to shape Dakar, he'll achieve the stability and endurance of diamond - which is my favourite quote in this book, despite it being of seeming non-importance. We are in the process of watching a raw gem be transformed!
Dakar tackle the Koriathan straight on did my heart no end of joy; can you imagine this silly fat prophet doing such a thing 250 years ago? 500 years ago?
I do not think Dakar will ever go back to that boozing, whoring child that he used to be - at least, I hope not - his shifting away from that aspect of himself and growing up, becoming wise, that change is too valuable and beautiful. I'd be more upset to see all his hard earned experience wiped away.
Although I note that Dakar in /Fortress/ is very different from the Dakar in /Curse/, but not much different from the Dakar in /Trial/ - which makes me wonder what has he been doing in the last 250 years… it seems Arithon is the catalyst for Dakar's change, so without him, Dakar's progression just halts.
originally posted by Annette
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Dakar's personality and habits might not have changed much from Stormed Fortress, but his knowledge, power and confidence sure took a big leap forward. Davien's prediction was a thousand years to mold him, till he achieved the stability of diamond. Dakar has so far taken 850 years, so presumably there is a bit more polishing before he really shines.
I think Lysaer might get a chance to add something to that polishing next. Lysaer certainly has lots of polish, finesse and tact to spare, and a silver tongue to go with it, Dakar could do with a bit of that rubbing of on him. Dakar's head on approach in the inn when he was trying to keep Lysaer from doing anything stupid certainly went wrong. Much like his attempt to save Arithon from falling to the curse at Riverton, barges in and says the wrong thing. Some things Dakar has not learned yet.
Lysaer's comment "My trials won’t stand your mage-sighted conscience stumbling about underfoot" got a chuckle from me. Lysaer seems to have summed up the problem of having Dakar tagging along trying to save him.
originally posted by Maggie
I have a question about people's names. So Janny, if you would be so kind, I'm Asking. For townborn, is there a traditional way that names get passed down from generation to generation? I couldn't see many links, but names in the same family tend to sound and/or look similar to me. Some families more than others… Which is leading me to some conclusions that are probably wildly out in left field.
Thanks!
originally posted by Annette
Maybe we need to narrow the question down a bit for Janny to reply.
Which town born names did you think looked or sounded similar Maggie? I have noticed some similar looking names amongst the clan families usually a male and female, cannot think of a similar thing amongst the few town names we have though. Closest I remember was Jinesse's twins Fiark and Feylind.
Maggie, You Asked.
The townborn names differ from the Paravian names for many reasons, and there will be differences within the town 'system' - for these reasons.
Originally, at the time of settlement, there would have been many names, from many people of MANY backgrounds and cultures - a grab bag of groups that fled the great war (interstellar empire).
When the Fellowship gave surety and swore them into the compact, they would have 'dropped out' all extra names/surnames/anything that connected them to their prior setting - and settled on ONE name for each individual/tagged to a family name 'sen' to delineate a family grouping.
This system loosely stuck - with 'sen' and a parent's name taken to denote a family group - and with time, all the various other names would have evolved or morphed - as names do, over centuries.
The clanborn took Paravian names because they had to deal with Paravians and became fluent in that language. The townborn Sen was not used - s' - became the Paravian version, and it was usually only applied to families of PROVEN lineage to interact with the Paravian races.
Some townborn names may have had origins with Earth based languages…evolved over time to an Atheran derivative.
I hope this explains your question.
originally posted by Maggie
Yes, I think it does… Now to go back and look carefully… Thanks!
originally posted by Annette
Janny I have a question about the clanborn Names. If before the rebellion the clans tested their offspring's birth gifts by exposing them to a Paravian presence, should not most of the clanborn have a family name? We meet many characters in the books without ever knowing their Names, is it for the story we only learn some Names and clan lineages, or is there another reason why there seems so few Named lineages in the clans. There could not be that many new lineages since the rebellion, cannot imagine too many townborn wanting to join the clans, even if they did have talent.
originally posted by Jeff
Merry Christmas, Janny and fellow readers!
I received Initiate's Trial the week after Thanksgiving and enjoyed it.
I've read this book slower than I usually do for a first read to avoid missing details. Of course, I'm sure I've only skimmed the surface.
I'll contribute to the discussion once the holiday rush has slowed and I've caught up on the spoiler topics.
originally posted by Dorothy
Merry Christmas to all! Best wishes for a Happy New Year.