originally posted by max
Iagree with Annette. I think they came thru a world gate. the North worldsend gate probably leads right to Seattle!!!lol
originally posted by Annette
The gates were formed as part of the compact that allowed humanity to settle on Athera, there were no splinter worlds and no gates before humanity arrived. And there was no proof the human survivors had light speed vessels. In Sundering Star we were told PanTac had a monopoly on the light-speed class hulls that made starships (Undercover of darkness pg 241). It could have taken humanity longer than 12,000 years to find an uncharted planet, they would not have come directly to Athera and we have no idea how long it took the human civilisations to actually collapse. Or the dragons could have snatched Calum Kincaid and his team from any time even the far distant past well over 12,000 years before the start of the third age, they could have been brought forward in time.
There seems to be an anomaly with the number of Prime Matriarchs since the destruction of the home worlds. There has been over a thousand them! Although they probably never started out with an extended life span, and Morriel is probably the first to live over 1000 years, for an unbroken line of Primes we seem to have a bit of a mystery.
I have almost finished collecting my quotes, just have to flip through the books and actually find the page numbers.
originally posted by Sleo
I'm fairly certain that humanity did NOT arrive on Athera in space ships! That just outrages my sense of mystery… I have a vague memory of Asandir telling about their arrival there and will make note in my reread.
And Trys, I would be glad to start a thread. I'm lousy at reading slow and taking note of things, though. I always get caught up in the momentum of the story and can't stop! But I'll try. 
originally posted by Annette
To save Sleo looking.
quote:Koriani travelling was based on the technology of the civilisation that they originally came from. The same technology they agreed to give up under the terms of the compact when they settled on Athera. The fellowship also used an engine to travel between the stars, theirs just arrived on Athera by more mystical means.Morriel Prime sat in her nest of piled cushions, eyes unseeing and open. Right and left hands rested yet on the focal channels of two crystals, with her frail body in linkage between them. The Great Waystone twined the given talents of thousands of enchantresses into one. Upon that cold flux, the Prime imposed her given will. She had no sentimental attachment to Athera; on the contrary, the viability of any one planet became an expendable resource. Break the compact and the covenant of Paravian preservation, and mankind could reclaim its interdicted knowledge and remanifest the technologies of star travel.
Grand Conspiracy pg 439-440 Mass Market PB
quote:'Our Fellowship was drawn here by drake-dream,' Asandir confided at last. 'The power of old dragons has a very long reach, and it chose us
because we were deemed masters without parallel in the terrible arts of destruction. The engine we had taken to flee the horrors of our past was
plucked from its transit across the deeps between stars. Crater Lake in Araethura marks the site where the forces arisen from the drake's desperate
need hurled it earthward.
Ships of Merior pg 400 Mass Market PB
originally posted by Sleo
Thanks, Annette
I well remember Morriel Prime's obsession with gaining mankind's lost ability to travel between stars.
And the second quote by Asandir is talking about when the F7 arrived at Athera, is it not? Was that not separate from humanity's arrival?
originally posted by Annette
It was two seperate arrivals, by some 12,000 years. The fellowship arrived at the start of the second age, the remains of humanity seeking sanctuary arrived at the start of the third age. But both came from the same civilisation and both used the same technology before arriving on Athera. The Biedar who were apparently following the Koriani were an entirely different culture, they do not use technology.
originally posted by Sleo
ARGH! I was trying to find this discussion and couldn't, so Trys suggested I open another thread, so I did and posted this that I am copying and pasting here:
Somewhere else in this forum there was a discussion on this subject and now I can't find it, of course. I was outraged by some suggestions that they got there by space ship, as the whole idea of a space ship on Athera just outrages me. I'm currently rereading the books, to prepare for the release of Initiate's Trial, and also to sift for Janny's damnable esoteric hints!
Asandir does say how he and the other sorcerers arrived:
Quote: Our Fellowship was drawn here by Drake-dream, Asandir confided at last. The power of old dragons has a very long reach, and it chose us because we were deemed masters without parallel in the terrible arts of destruction. The engine we had taken to flee the horrors of our past was plucked from its transit across the deeps between stars. Crater Lake in Araethura marks the site where the forces arisen from the drakes' desperate need hurled it earthward. We were given our deliverance there from the guilt and the agony that harrowed us since our acts. And though bloodshed by then was abhorrent to us, we fought to ensure Paravian survival until the last of the Seardluin lay dead.
Then it only says 'Men arrived…" not how.
I just finished Ships of Merior in hopes that Asandir told the s'Brydions in his lecture about Atheran and F7 history, but alas, he does not say specifically. It dawned on me suddenly, though, that they must've arrived through the World Gates. He (Asandir) does say that certain ones were expelled through the Gates.
Side question: Do we know who or what made the World Gates?
originally posted by Annette
The Fellowship made the World Gates, as part of the compact apparently.
quote:WORLDSEND GATES - set at the four compass points of the continent of Paravia. These were spelled portals constructed by the Fellowship
of Seven at the dawn of the Third Age, and were done in connection with the obligations created by their compact with the Paravian races which
allowed men to settle on Athera.
Ships of Merior Glossary
originally posted by Sleo
Oh! Well that seems to imply that humanity used them to settle then. As to how humanity arrived at the same planet as the F7, might we assume the F7 invited them??? Perhaps out of their guilt for past misdeeds and for the fact that humanity was in tatters?
originally posted by Annette
Humanity went from Athera to the gate worlds, not the other way around. The Fellowship never created them till humanity had arrived and the compact was needed.
quote:Each destination world had to be CAREFULLY chosen. It had to accept human habitation by free will. Dascen Elur in particular had very little inhabitable land mass - it was largely open ocean. (Reasons for this, and also reasons why the buffer world was predominantly a mineral desert)
Each of the gate worlds had a purpose, as "escape valve" for specific things – South Gate was where technology was permitted to develop.
https://paravia.com/JannyWurts/website/AuthorsNotes/FAQ/SplinterWorlds.html
originally posted by Neil
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
Davien & Ariton disuss in Traitors Knot? Humanity were capable of moving on…at the time, reprovisioned. Presumably Koriani Prime has this knowledge of space faring technology for the moment. The Bieder might also be on Athera by choice and could move on? It is not discussed but townborn and clan might still have this knowledge?
Humanity arrived at Athera on their own. Without paravian permision humanity would not have been permitted to settle on Athera. The F7 agreed to help negotiatations IIRC.
originally posted by Richard Myburgh
Yes the remnants of Humanity arrived on Athera many millennia later. consider that the possible stops along the way is how humanity first colonized the worlds beyond the worldgates and they just stumbled through there after technology had digressed back to that of Medieval times.
Note many books and films depicting how "backward" civilisation and technology becomes in a post-apocalyptic world.
side note: it took Moses and his group 40 years to cross a desert. a group of straggling survivors is going to take much longer to cross infinite space (even if they did have a homing beacon on the F7 ship).
final note: towns and clan folk were not the first people either. the children of Mother darkness got there first and so are not bound by the compact.
originally posted by Annette
Richard, how would humanity stumble though something they would not have access to unless they were already on Athera? The gates were not even built till just before the compact was agreed on, since the conditions of the compact needed the gates to be able to move beings from Athera when needed. None of the linked worlds had a human settlement before the compact was agreed on.
The remnants of the old civilization arrived at Athera with their starship, so they never digressed at all to a backward civilization while looking for a new home. In accepting their new home they had to give up their old ways and their technology, they accepted that. Just as the koriani accepted they would not be able to use their knowledge of that technology. They are grumbling about the tyranny of the compact, they were free to take their technology and knowledge and go find some where else to settle, no one forced them to settle on Athera.
The splinter worlds connected to Athera by the gates had no settlements till after the compact was agreed on. It was explained in the books how those banished through the south gate developed an advanced civilization, which destroyed itself by creating that Mistwraith. Mearth was settled by the Paravians for a while, and Dascen Elur was settled by the royals fleeing the rebellion, who presumably took enough people with them to start what they thought would be temporary settlements. Arithon and Lysaer were the only ones to return.
The North Gate seems to be built for dragons only, and we have yet to hear what went through or is yet to go through the East Gate. But if the Worldsend Gates were built as escape valves for things from Athera, everything that went through them was Atheran, not refugees from another world.
I did always wonder how humanity managed to find Athera, which it seemed was not on any of their maps. I thought they might have been following that meteor that Alithiel was made from, a cinder of a fallen star. Or that someone might have sent a homing beacon to guide that cinder home to Athera. Bound to be a story behind that meteor, I suspect we have already started it, how it all began. Have to wait and see.