originally posted by Brad
Spoiler
On Wednesday when I read the scene with the glowing eye in Davien's lair I was like pretty excited to see that my thought that he had indeed wrangled himself a drake to do all the stuff in PG and TK turned out correct.
The 3 snippets labeled Dragon literally had me jumping around the house yelling Oh My God, OMG, OMG several times over. I mean, I was pretty pumped when it was obvious that Arithon would summon Paravians (and rightly guess it would be sunchildren since we haven't seen them yet) and the curse would be lifted but not like Dragon. I mean, Avenor got WTFPWNED! I certainly didn't expect to see something of that magnitude.
originally posted by Technetus
I took time out from exam preparation to cover-to-cover SF twice in as many days (8 hours per pass, roughly). I'll return for discussion once exams are over, and I have time to post a more in-depth response than simply "Yikes!"
originally posted by Diann Coonfield
Stephen and Starstorm
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To me the most significant betrayal is Jeynsa's betrayal. Morriel discussed this P 82 "Arithon Teir'sFfalen and no one else possessed the right to prosecute Jeynsa's betrayal." This betrayal led to Arithon asking for help in the King's Grove and getting rid of the Mistwraith's geas completely. This betrayal also forced him to go to Alestron where he used Alithiel and influenced Lysaer to realize that he (Lysaer) was cursed. If Arithon had not done these things, the final part of Fionn Areth's birth prophecy would be more likely (ie living to old age with Mistwraith winning and dooming the return of the Paravians).
originally posted by skeoke
Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler
Question Question Question
Fantastic book! You were right (of course) every line is a spoiler, and too much to give away too soon.
Things that struck me right off:
Davien's tenderness toward Arithon after one of Arithon's stripping encounters with the mysteries. Arithon never did get much chance to recover from backlash before jumping into the thick of it again.
The betrayal of Cattrick's crew! That won't be forgiven! Not enough nasty things to say…
Kyrialt!!! (good luck, Sethvir!)
Once Mearn left, I thought the other brothers would be dead before the end of the book. I think Bransian would have preferred that.
How will Elaira be able to keep a secret from Arithon?? Is Dakar leaving because he knows he won't be able to keep the secret? Or does straight guilt make Asandir's company preferable?
Faithan always gets the best men.
'Kay, real question: How can Davien make a bargain with a dragon? What could Davien possibly offer? Is Davien assisting at all with the 'settling' of the grimwards?
That's all for now, this'll take a couple of rereads…
originally posted by Winter
Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler
Just finished and had a thought. The Paravian wards in Alestron's walls are what kept the Koriani fertility trap from springing, yes? So why wouldn't the group make for the nearest Paravian fortress (Ithamon maybe? or Old Tirans?) so Elaira could do the necessary thing conscience free?
I need to re-read the appendix but I got the impression that the royal geas had a finite amount. The more royals there were, the less geas to go around. When Arithon's daughter is born (or perhaps at the moment of conception) she would have some part of the s'Ffalenn geas, reducing the amount Arithon has. I wonder if he'll notice that.
Somebody asked what Arithon might do next. I would venture to suggest that the next arc deals with the Koriani. This arc ends with Elaira intending to go back and Arithon's been saying they need to deal with the Order throughout the book. And then the next book deals with the contained Mistwraith and the free wraiths coming from Marak. The return of the Paravians and must be coming at some point as well, and perhaps even the introduction of a s'Ahelas from Dascen Elur to take up Shand's crown and a s'Illessid for Tysan that doesn't have the complication of 2 royal gifts.
originally posted by Andy
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
How will Elaira be able to keep a secret from Arithon?? Is Dakar leaving because he knows he won't be able to keep the secret? Or does straight guilt make Asandir's company preferable?
I wondered about this myself. In light of the Arithon's and Elaira's incredible relationship, which is based on unconditional love and trusting and honest vulnerability, I don't think she is going to be able to keep it from Arithon, nor should she. As for Dakar, I think you are right that he left because he couldn't stay and maintain the lie. Also, the need for him to protect the crowned prince of Rathain is over, because Arithon can easily protect himself, now that he has in initiate mastery back, plus being released from the curse.
Is Davien assisting at all with the 'settling' of the grimwards?
IIRC, Davien said something to that effect, that after the dragon got done sunning herself or something like that, they were off to the two other grimwards to settle/patch them up.
originally posted by Julie
Good read. I was right about Sulfin Evand and Arithon!! Glendian volunteered her body so Elaira would not get pregnant.But I did not see an assumption that Glendian would get pregnant. The Beidar and Sethvir's presence was not detected by Elaira. Also Asandir implied that Glendian had the choice to bear this child- so her birth was not a forgone conclusion by anyone at Athir. It will be interesting to learn where and how Glendian raises this child.
Thank you Janny for allowing Lysaer to grow and reclaim some of his humanity. I was hoping that 450 years left to the brothers was not going to be all blood shed. It will take generations to rebuild Athera and Lysaer's innate sense of justice should be allowed to help in the healing.
originally posted by Maria 'borg
SPOOOOOOOIIIIILER
I have now read the book 1’ times and am still digesting. I feel rather like a snake that has taken on prey that is slightly too big.
Just a few thoughts:
I feel so relieved that Sethvir has had the load taken off his back!
I don’t believe that Arithon will stay ignorant of his daughter. As I see it nobody else will tell him, but can you imagine a s’Falenn daughter who will not seek her father out as soon as she’s old enough?
For the rest, this book contains so many momentous events that I’m surprised and awed that Janny has crammed them all into one book, even of this brick-size.
Maria
originally posted by Meredith Lee Gray
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
It looks as though Elaira chose to remain blissfully ignorant of any conception on Glendien's part–so that her relationship with Arithon wouldn't be tainted with deception. And Asandir commented that it was unlikely she would have chance to find out about the baby (and that if she tried, Sethvir would probably try to side-track her).
So Elaira doesn't know, and Dakar chose to quit Arithon's company (the tension between those two is puzzling and sad to me… I guess I missed the import there). Parrien has gone. That just leaves Talvish. And it's doubtful he knows the truth of the matter, the child, but I could be wrong…
And the impression that I got from Asandir/Glendien/the Biedar was that they intended for the girl to grow on her own path ("find her way without the concern of her father's aware interference"), but that she "shall come to spare her father, one day dispossessed of his knowledge of her paternity."
I reread some of the pertinent parts and I don't seem to read any line suggesting that she won't know who her father is. But that Arithon won't… at least until the timing is right, after she's grown. But it seems like it would be easier to not tell the girl that Arithon s'Ffalenn is her father, because if YOU knew that was your papa, wouldn't you be driven by sheer curiosity to make contact?
Man, I wish we knew her name. I wish Janny had slipped it into the last triplet. Now we have to wait a good year and a half at least to be able to call her anything other than "the child"? Maybe we can beg and plead that she share the name in a few months, once most people have read the book, since it wouldn't be spoiling much…
Oh, and speaking of the last triplet. At first I assumed the child being born was Arithon's daughter. But the timing isn't right. Because the Concatenation chapter occurred in Winter (not even EARLY Winter like some of the earlier chapters were), and the last triplet with the cutting of the birth-cord of the "infant successor" is supposedly in Spring. So at MOST that would be six months. Granted I have never carried or birthed a child myself, but isn't normal gestation 9 months? And I was confused as to why/how Glendien was suddenly in Sanpashir. 
So my conclusion is that the child is the Biedar Eldest's successor, to "watch over" Arithon in his coming trials. Maybe this was obvious to everyone else but me, IDK. I had to read it a few times to understand what was going on.
Mer
originally posted by Maria 'borg
Mer, do you mean that you understand what’s going on after only a few readings? I certainly don’t!
Maria
originally posted by Meredith Lee Gray
After only one reading!
I admit it. I read the few spoilers that were posted before I got my copy. So I knew who lived, who died, and essentially what all transpired. So I didn't feel the crushing need to rip through the book at a frenzied pace like I normally do! So I read it pretty slowly, and feel like I have a much better understanding of what happened in this book then when I normally do after a first read through of one of Janny's books.
And now you know my secret shame. 
originally posted by DarthJazy
Dont feel bad Meredith since I can afford to get the book from the UK at the much higher price I have been reading all the spoilers just to appease my desire to know what the hell is going on. I troll this forum like noones buissness on a daily basis.
originally posted by hosanna
Ok have finished reading Stormed Fortress … impressions … SPOILERS
Lots of great wow moments. Arithon going to the grove !!! Lysaer granted reprieve by Alithiel. Sulfin Evend meeting Arithon and feeling the guilt for his treatment of Jeiret. Sidir not trusting Elaira and allowing himself to be captured and branded! Arithon and Elaira making love with Alithiel's song and light surrounding them - so beautiful! Sethvir being reclaimed from the brink of death (beyond the brink to my reading). Davien in the eye of the dragon! Arithon unable to help himself using shadow to defend Feylind! Lirenda denied salvation again! Asandir using Davien's experience to quiet the grimward. Dakar taking up his study willingly. Fionn Areth dying a heroic soldier as he might have wished. Jeynsa dealing with Bransian. Lysaer's wipeout of the outer holdings. Parrien being used by Morriel/Selidie. Parrien attacking Arithon. Kyrialt's death! Elaira's honesty with Sulfin Evend. The Fellowhsip flag flying above the citadel. The Biedar influence on the retrieval of Arithon. And Glendien getting pregnant!!!
Shock and Awe each one!
Further thoughts … I don't think it was really explained why there was no other way to rescue Arithon at the end. I am still coming to terms with someone other than Elaira bearing his child and all the secrecy. To quote an Aussie advertisement "not happy Jan(ny)". Arithon's reaction when he finds out had better be good!
Was a tad disappointed Davien didn't turn out to be right about the rebellion in some way. There is so much complex stuff in there even several readings wouldn't suffice. I'd love to be walked through it step by step.
In this book there seemed a lot 'left out'. The battle for Alestron really happened off-page a lot as opposed to atop the walls. The main characters were otherwise engaged with healing etc. After descriptions of Alestron in prior books I was expecting the breaching of the glass-studded walls to be a bigger feature.
So many significant happenings I felt this could have been two books.
One thread I felt was not fully explored was how Jeynsa initially took off to investigate Arithon based on her vision of him being involved with necromancers. Once she got to Alestron she heard that he had actually been acting for the Fellowship and saved a lot worse from happening. She then changed tacks and focused on his having let down his allies - what else could she do, she had arrived there at the scene of the seige, her pride and youth would not allow acknowledgment of her grave error. Stubbornness made her stay on. But I fully expected Arithon to call her on this, to 'see her heart' and help her learn through the moment by being tough and forcing her honesty as a substitute father for Jeiret.
Didn't understand about the dragon. What did she get out of the deal? The fellowship has their straits eased with the grimwards. Davien gets flesh, Avenor prevented from becoming another grimward.
At risk of offending … you know in Stephen King's Misery when the kidnapper explains how the author "cheated" by reversing something that readers see as having 'happened'. Janny had me all backwards and forwards a number of times.
I really thought Sethvir was dead. Then I was certain. Then I was convinced. Then he came back! This has happened other times with other characters even Arithon. It is the intensity of the drama and the words used to convey that intensity. everything is at the extreme of endurance, then beyond endurance, then past salvation then somehow it all comes good.
I feel I've been cranked through an old-fashioned washing mangle.
That said, can't wait for the next one.
originally posted by George
I agree with Hosanna…i think I have to re-read this book at least 2 times.
I am absolutely amazed at how Janny has developed as a writer. As a piece of writing it is very well constructed and expertly written. The grammar is amazing! The sentence structure and description is enough to make any English professors jump for joy!
However, some of the dialogue I had a little trouble following! (HA! and I'm a lawyer!) I don't know about you, but at some parts of the book I was thinking…this guy is an ex-goat herder…would a goat herder actually talk like that??? Some of the dialogue amongst the "less educated" seemed a little too high brow and maybe a little contrived…having said that, maybe Athera really is just an amazing place!
originally posted by Meredith Lee Gray
I don't recall any of the characters in the book, princes, servants, soldiers, sorcerers, to really have any casual, slang-ish speech patterns. So it's been pretty consistently formal speech throughout her writings.
Fionn Areth has used some base curses and turns of phrase a couple times though, that kind of indicated his rougher, "country" upbringing.
I think I remember one of Janny's characters saying "Hey!" once and I thought Hey! They say 'hey' on Athera!
But, don't feel bad George. I OFTEN have to re-read someone's dialogue two or three times to get the full meaning. Especially the sorcerer's. Especially when someone is making a joke and I don't get it, so I read their dialogue over and over and finally give up. Only to realize that Janny hasn't given us the punch line until a couple lines later! Then I'm just glad I wasn't a complete dunce who just didn't get the joke!
Mer
originally posted by Julie
Our ability to communicate verbally has devolved over the several generations that mass media has evolved. If everyone on Athera could send and recive images as the F7 can there would be no need for descriptive language. All levels of Athera's society need to use verbal language. It just sounds high brow to our "newspeak", text messaging, 30 second advertising, youtube ears.
originally posted by Matthew
Not sure i totally agree with that. I doubt back before world war 1 anyone talked like they were attending a formal banquet.
originally posted by Matthew
commonfolk i mean, you have to remember tho that Fionn Areth isnt typical of country folk.
originally posted by Trys
Matthew,
Try reading letters written to home by common soldiers during the American Civil War. These letters are not only well crafted in terms of sentence structure and grammar but quite often wax poetic.
Just to explain a little about who served as a common soldier in that war - well to do (and so likely better educated - i.e., college educated) men who received their draft notice (in the North anyway) would often hire someone to serve in their place.
There's no doubt in my mind that our (I can only speak for Americans) level of literacy and literateness has dropped dramatical in the last 150 years.
Trys
originally posted by Matthew
That bears thinking about, i'll have to find a source for some of those letters.
It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking every generation that came before us was less educated i guess =/, though some people would say that we're dropping form and politeness/goodmanners in favour of being efficient and to the point.
e.g old style 'my heart yearns to be home in your arms again' = modern 'cnt w8 2 bng u sily'