Davien's Discorporation

originally posted by Clansman

Right you are, o wise Gryphon. We read it one way in GC, and it turns out that we shouldn't have narrowed our perception so much. However, I do think that Janny counts on us to perceive things a certain way, only to show us how narrow our vision can be. Then the light goes on, and we realize how poorly we perceived what was going on.

originally posted by Trys

Indeed. Something that I think is good to have happen to one's self… having our perceptions challenged.

I am off for a weekend PIRATE FEST - piping on the vessel that will broadside the town, literally…grin.

So, yes, there is an answer to this - no, I can't write it out, just now.

It is a multi level event - as several things were involved in collision at that moment.

To understand the choice of language and why things ran the way they did, will take more time than I have today (packing! Fixing up the Animals etc). So - speculate away! I'll ring in shortly.

If you want to play in advance of that - look at Shehane Althain.

Consider Sethvir as Warden of Althain.
Consider the Fellowship of Seven's internal workings, historical and current.
Consider their binding with the Dragons.

Look at the word: censure.

originally posted by Clansman


1. strong or vehement expression of disapproval: The newspapers were unanimous in their censure of the tax proposal.
2. an official reprimand, as by a legislative body of one of its members.
'verb (used with object)
3. to criticize or reproach in a harsh or vehement manner: She is more to be pitied than censured.
'verb (used without object)
4. to give censure, adverse criticism, disapproval, or blame.
(from Dictionary.com)

HMMMMM. That doesn’t sound like it is a punishment that fits with the death of one’s body and being turned into a ghost. Being censured is a slap on the wrist, so to speak.

originally posted by Mark Stephen Kominski

*Addresses the gathering herein*

This gauntlet was indeed formulated for an open discussion elsewhere, but the primary architects (who are the usual suspects on that forum, and are listed by Clanny above) are all that have weighed in to date. As my colleague The Clansman and I are on opposite sides of the discussion, we'd love to hear what the other good denizens here have to say.

*Completes role as supplicant, assumes a forward position…*

What then are we to make of the very next sentence after the reference to "censure" in Grand Conspiracy, and two sentences after the description of his role in the rebellion…

"In recognition of the damages caused by his hand, he had been rendered discorporate through a ceremonial destruction of the flesh."

I must confess an inability to read this in any other fashion than cause and effect…are the "damages" in question not referring to the rebellion and the overthrow of the 5 kingdoms? Am all for being tossed like a cork on the Seas of WoLaS, but occasionally a spade is, well, a spade…except when it's the Spanish Inquisition…:wink:

originally posted by Laneth Sffarlenn

I must say that the level of clarity, understanding and speculative power so many of ye possess regarding the WoLaS series far outshines that which I hold.

While I can confidently recount the story so far to friends who are interested, I cannot possibly, with so much detail and with such accurate recall and refrence, argue the intricasies of the story.

I tilt my hat and step back to enjoy the speculation and creative twists we're putting on the as-yet unfinished story :smiley:

originally posted by Mark Stephen Kominski

But what a story to speculate on, eh?

Would add that if any are interpreting my comments as complaints or criticism…well…DON'T!!!

(They're not!)

originally posted by Auna

Ok, I'll toss in my .02 :wink:

I think the centuar guardian saw Davien's actions - his inciting the Fellowship to such anger and crossing Sethvir's will - as threatening the Fellowship's existence. So he neutralized the threat as a result of the damage done. In some ways he was right, the Fellowship is still 'damaged' from that incident.

originally posted by Mark Stephen Kominski

*Checks the tip drawer and sees in it…2 cents (Thanks Auna!)*

Surely there are others out there who have opinions on this? I mean, other than these thunderous crickets…:wink:

Well, here you go…I am not sure this info will NOT crop up again, in magnified form, later - but - if it does, the spoil will be small.

To understand the warding laid over Althain Tower - note - Sethvir gave Lirenda the ILLUSION of the centaur…and she did not attack the tower, or seek entry without his presence and permission. The consciousness remaining on site there envelops the entire tower. To go within, is, in fact, something of a "merging" event. That conscious would be aware of all that transpired within.

The Warden of Althain is in relationship, direct, to that consciousness. To cross the Warden's direct will - a big oops!!! Paravians do not have a concept for "punishment" - they do understand balance. A direct cross of the warden's will would result in INSTANT removal from Athera's physical existence, no return…it would not be a limbo, but a shift in vibration that would take the violating consciousness - elsewhere - in fact, healing it of its contention. But that spirit could never return, it would be beyond all recall to bodily reality.

Sethvir/the Fellowship were created at the time of the creation of the Great Weapon…they agreed to stand together and not do anything/make any decision regarding use of power that all did not agree upon.

The Drake's binding then fell atop that prior commitment, to stand together at all costs.

When Davien was called to Althain, it WAS a formal summons asking him to account for his actions (answer for them, NOT be punished) and, for at least the other six, a call to find accord and keep their covenents - with themselves and with the dragons. The accounting was called. What shape it may have taken, had Davien chosen to cooperate is not known.

Sethvir set a ceremonial warding on the door as his EMPHATIC statement the commitment to find accord was serious, not to be avoided or ducked, and a formal call to Davien to honor and hold their oath of Seven as inviolate.

Davien broke accord by crossing the line, walking out on both answering and seeking accord for the future. This was INTERPRETED by the guardian warding as a break of personal faith, AND a break of a sworn oath between peers, AND a repudiation of the Dragon's binding to ensure Paravian survival. Therefore, on three levels, Davien was forsworn, in the "eyes" of Shehane Althain's consciousness.

This pulled into play the direct power of the warding of Shehane Althain…which was GOING to remove Davien from his body, and ALSO irrevocably disbar his presence on Athera…which would have shattered the accord with the fellowship, and destroyed the binding of the Dragons, by willed event - an act that would have brought UNKNOWN and perhaps terrible consequence for the other six who remained.

Therefore, the Six Sorcerers acted FIRST - stripped Davien of the flesh - and in doing so, struck a concession/balance with the warding of Shehane Althain - for without the flesh, Davien would not so easily be able to create with the brilliance of his gifts…in the physical…The concession was paid to KEEP DAVIEN ON ATHERA - as spirit - thus, censure was the correct word - something of his presence was given up to placate Shehane Althain's demand, and stop/deflect the full impact of his guardian warding.

All this complexity was way too much to stack onto a hot scene - but it's there in the background, and bits of that may yet play.

originally posted by Brittani

WOW! How do you keep all of the really intricate little details of history inside your head?

Janny you are just awsome!!!

originally posted by Laneth Sffarlenn

I've heard rumours that even the most die-hard fan, and even Mr. Maitz, wouldn't dare venture into the realm that is our Janny's office / writing room :smiley:

Remember the scene from The Sword in the Stone (cartoon) when Merlin packs his travelling bag? Papers, bits-and-bobs, knick-knacks etc. all flying around? Imagine a slightly more organised and less tornado-ey room :smiley:

originally posted by Laneth Sffarlenn

Oh, I also have these awesome dreams that a similar thing will happen with Paravia that happened to Middle Earth - all the notes and back-stories will be compiled into one or several compendiums for us details-crazy folk to drool over.

Also, kinda like the "Dragonlover's Guide to Pern" :smiley:

originally posted by Hunter

Janny has previously mentioned a wish to do a compendium kind of post Arc V novel (when we know how this all ends… well, at least some of it!) to provide more back history, etc. However, with Arcs IV and V to do, I suspect this will stay a wish for a while - especially as some of this back history is, I’m sure, related directly to the story at hand and to reveal it now would drop some major spoilers into the mix…

Having said that, Trys set up the Paravia wiki for fan based contributions to have a similar kind of reference site - link is https://wiki.urizone.net/wiki/Main_Page. This is fan based input so it only contains information from published sources (the books plus anything Janny might say here) and comes from fans rather than Janny herself.

(Trys - is this linked via the menus from Janny’s page? Couldn’t find it…)

Also, an easier to remember version of the link is:
http://wiki.paravia.com/ :smiley:

I’ve gone through the entire Chat Area archive for all the posts Janny has ever made here, and much of it has already been added to the Wiki. The rest will go in as time permits – none of it will be overlooked!

Shedding more light in further depth - if you want to re-examine a second scene which evokes the effectiveness and depth and working of the Paravian warding - have a look at the earlier scene in the subchapter called Tidings in Peril's Gate, where Asandir returns his horse to the stable at Althain Tower…it's a scene some would call "window dressing" - Not!!!

originally posted by Frank T Davis

In the U.S. version, go to pages 130-131.

You are correct as usual, when I first read this, I obviously flew right over it without due appreciation.


originally posted by Auna

As usual, my teensy understanding is like a drop in the ocean of whats going on here :wink:

I remember that scene with the horse quite vividly. I remember thinking - normal humans are screwed!

originally posted by Winter

"destroyed the binding of the Dragons, by willed event - an act that would have brought UNKNOWN and perhaps terrible consequence for the other six who remained."

This seems to suggest that the dragons' binding was laid on the Seven as a whole. That the elimination of a single member would effect the others in a way that goes beyond merely being shorthanded. Does this mean that Traithe and more recently Sethvir's near death situations were/are potentially have/had far more impact than the loss of a valuable but single individual?