originally posted by winter
I'm not sure if this has been discussed already, but why couldn't humanity have been settled on one of the worlds beyond the gates instead of staying on Athera. We know that Marak and Dascen Elur were/are inhabitable planets and that some humans did end up living there. Why wouldn't the Fellowship simply help humanity settle on one of those other worlds? They could see humanity safe and keep Athera for the Paravians…
Spoilers and Wild Speculation Ahead…
On the Black Rose prophecy, in order for the Fellowship to be restored to 7 (and I'm assuming it'll be the original members) Ciladis has to return. And since we know he's in some kind of stasis with the Paravians nearby, something must happen with the Paravians in order for him to be freed to return. So perhaps Arithon's willingness to embrace kingship, the final defeat of the Mistwraith, the return of the Paravians and Davien's reconciliation with the Law of the Major Balance and the rest of the Fellowship are all very closely linked.
If SF is suppose to bring to a close the threads began at the start of the Alliance of Light books then we might expect to see the Alliance of Light itself dealt with (broken or otherwise, it's already having problems), the resolution of Fionn Areth's birth prophecy (there are flaws in saying the deaths by Fire and Salt Water are passed, but I sort of think it anyhow. The death by salt water certainly, Fionn Areth having survived the Evenstar attack where Arithon indeed would have died with him), and a resolution of the Free Wraiths of Marak. All three really arose in Alliance of Light Pt1 (FP) afterall.
Wild speculation here:
If Arithon's talents can help deal with the Free Wraiths (which was the reason he was asked to give a blood oath to survive), then he could also deal with the Mistwraith. Freeing all the twisted spirits in the Mistwraith would resolve Traithe as a retored Fellowship member. It might also lead to the return of the Paravians (who I believe left because of the Mistwraith and won't return until it's taken care of) which would resolve Ciladis' reuniting with the Fellowship. The return of the Paravians would force a huge reckoning (settlement in the wrong places like Etarra, or on places that were Paravain dominated like Araethura and Carithwyr).
(here's where the really wild speculation starts) That huge reckoning could perhaps lead to Arithon embracing a wardenship or kingship of Athera (Cianor Sunlord was King of Athera). Davien apparantly has accepted Arithon's fitness to rule so he may place trust in a system based on Arithon, hence resolving his reunification with the Fellowship. Although the Fountain is credited for the long lifespan, surely Arithon could achieve the ability to extend his life in the same way Dakar and Verrain do. Arithon wouldn't be part of the Fellowship, but achieve a statis way beyond the rest of humanity (explaining why Dakar sees his aura differently). And since it was disclosed that the Fellowship are helping extend Elaira's life beyond what the Koriani are doing AND since it's been said Elaira could ask for Fellowship help in freeing herself from the Order (if she knew to ask), Elaira might be able to co-exist freely with him. Which would help Arithon deal with his new statis as king or whatever.
originally posted by bomber
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS and wild speculation
my thoughts on Davien:
Recall that Davien opposed the compact from the beginning, and that he would rather have sent humanity elsewhere from athera. (TK)
This says to me that Davien initially thought that humanity could not co-exist with the paravians, unlike the rest of the f7.
Davien also mentioned many things in PG and TK, but the phrases that stand out to me are:
1.paravian survival is paramount (to arithon)
2.you will have to choose between the compact and rathain's monarchy (to Sethvir in TK)
3.you are my fit weapon to champion the cause of humanity (to arithon)
(I Apologize for not using quote marks, wasn't sure if they were the exact words)
These things tell me that Davien is working towards breaking the compact, which is perhaps what he was trying to do with the uprising as was mentioned before by Kam. Recall that Davien opposed the compact from the beginning, and i think that in trying to break the compact with the uprising, he was trying to force the rest of the f7 to either:
1. Establish a better system of rule for humanity alongside the paravians, or
2. send humanity away from athera
Davien seems to me to be always looking to challenge his and others assumptions, which i believe is why he created the five centuries fountain and particularly kewar, challenging someone to prove him wrong. And i think that Arithon suprised him. Arithon has shown that he has the ability to rule, and now Davien changes his attitude; perhaps humanity can live alongside paravians. But he still believes the compact is flawed, particularly now when the clans are so weak.
So my conclusion is that Davien is now working towards a better system of co-existance between humanity and the paravians, perhaps by breaking up the existing compact, and is using Arithon as his 'weapon' to achieve that end.
Wild, wild Speculation:
im also going to go out on a limb here, and predict that the koriani order will fall, or be drastically changed, in SF.
but with janny you never know…
bomber
originally posted by Jenna
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS - and my $0.02 of speculations
I also think that Davien set things up based on having seen the future. Rather than through a scrying, I'm thinking he comes by it naturally. I'm wondering if the s'Ahelas "gift" of foresight could have been given (as in gene-splicing magically given) by Davien. And maybe Arithon's compassion came to the s'Ffalenn lineage through Asandir - hence the similar auras.)
I'm thinking that Davien saw a worse possible future than what has happened (say, the Mistwraith enslaving/devouring humans and Paravians - the destruction of Anthera), so that's why he set things into motion - much like the F7-2.5 did when trying to crown Arithon. This is the only way to ensure Paravian survival.
I think Davien initially saw humanity as intrinsically incompatible with Anthera, and later saw the problems inherent with the split society they established. I think he (correctly) believes that Arithon would replace that separation of town and clan given the chance – as Arithon's aborted plans hoped to do. Per someone's comment in TK, the clans believe that intermarriage with townspeople will weaken the bloodline. But maybe it'd really make all humans able to safely stand in the presence of Paravians.
Lastly to the prologue, I sure hope the sages aren't on Anthera. Presumably there would be some people who would rather leave than give up their false beliefs. Maybe if the Mistwraith is removed from Marak, they could go there. (So long as they skip the advanced technology - the F7 have already seen that pitfall.)
P.S. regarding living drakes… As I recall, there was some sort of allusion to a sleeping drake under a mountain, back in one of the early books.
originally posted by R’is’n
Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler
On Davien - I reread the conversation between Davien and Sethvir in TK when Davien answers the Warden's summons for help. Davien mentions this thought: why not just let go of it all - let the Paravians fade, let the F7 be free from the responsibility the Drakes put on them, let nature take its course, and in time, another cycle will produce something similar to the Paravians. He is the only person I've read so far, who has been in the presence of a Paravian (I'm assuming!) and who can voice that kind of thought.
Sethvir replies that Ciladis couldn't entertain such a thought. He's lost, Sethvir and Asandir (and I assume the other 3) carry on maintaining the compact, hoping for Ciladis' return. He wanted to transmute, rather than kill, the drakespawn, wanting to get out of the Drakes binding, but also, wanting to keep the Paravians. Are the other 5 following Ciladis? I'm now even more curious about Ciladis and his influence over the F7.
Davien values free will and freedom, and resents the binding. The other 6 give up their free will and freedom to ensure Paravian survival.
One thought also occurred to me: the clans maintain their traditions by rote - they no longer remember the Paravians. I wonder if there will ever be clan who will eventually start asking: what are we doing all this for? (As Davien has asked.)
Also interesting to note: that when the sister of Ath nearly gave her energy to Asandir, it called him back from his task of misleading the Marak wraithes - her near sacrifice invoked the compact - as if a Paravian itself were being sacrificed? I keep wondering if the maintained future of Athera is not in Paravian return, but in the rites of Ath's brotherhood. They can channel the prime chord of Ath's creation - like the Paravians.
originally posted by neil
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
All 7 are "bound" by the drakes…there is just some flexibility of choice of action if paravian survival is not threatened.
I feel all of the F7 are unhappy about the binding (Asandir's "we who are bound" comments in GC)
The clans understand why because of their ability to perceive (over and above townborn normal capabilities) but they are paranoid about mixing with townborn simply because there is no way of testing whether the next generation can withstand paravian presence.
Davien feels the system is unstable but the clans are not really in a position to think outside the box since they seem to have been preoccupied with survival since the uprising.
I do wonder now who else has drunk from the 5 century fountain…was Davien trying to prove a point about long term thinking?
For me…
Compact: between humanity/F7 and paravians
binding: is between f7 and drakes (so this was enforced when the adept tried to help).
The compact guides maintenance of Athera and human/paravians relations; the binding enforces paravian survival…(which seems to dictate Athera surviving…the F7 have the power to enforce this and are obliged to do so if humanity step out of line…)
originally posted by Trys
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
quote:It's pretty unlikely that anyone did as they would have had to avoid Curse of Mearth which, if memory served was bound to the fountain area prior to Davien's discorporation.I do wonder now who else has drunk from the 5 century fountain…was Davien trying to prove a point about long term thinking?
Trys
originally posted by neil
Weren't the black shadow things release when davien went discorporate?
I just didn't want to face the fact that the 5 centuries fountain might have been a plot device to bring our two brothers to Athera for conflict during 500 years 
originally posted by Hunter
From what we know, it's the only thing that changed (apart from Davien) when he was rendered discorporate. Athera is littered with Davien's artifacts that he made whilst corporate. I wonder why only the Five Centuries fountain was affected? A simple explanation would that it is not Athera and whether that had an impact?
If the Atheran creations of Davien fell apart, then Kewar and, more importantly, Rockfell, would have changed dramatically…
originally posted by neil
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
Janny has hinted (I think?) that the curse of meath and why Davien was rendered discorporate would come out in the story…Davien has expressed distaste for the "state"…
I feel the paravians ought to be back soon…shame to create such creatures then have them play a minor part in the story…I now wonder whether it really was the mistwraith that triggered their disappearance…but then they refused to name it…curious…the mistwraith's brut strength was beyond the Paravians or simply not their responsibilty from their perspective?
I'm guessing Davian was the mistaken one for wanting to push humanity onwards…but that he is probably right about the clans system…I'm curious as to why the F6 are opposed to him…in fact asandir/luhaine/Kharadmon seem most displeased. Sethvir seems more neutrol and I don't think we've seen Traithe's views
originally posted by Andy
I've wondered about the Paravians reasons for leaving and whether the commonly accepted reason, the invasion of the Mistwraith or perhaps the disappearance of sunlight were the cause. One of the things that struck me as odd was that I don't think the Paravians left immediately when the Mistwraith invaded. There was a period of like 25 or 100 years where the clans fought the advance of the Mistwraith down at Earle and who knows where else. But the Paravians left something like 100 years after the Mistwraith first came through Southgate. Although their decision to leave or hide themselves was undoubtedly connected to the presence of the Mistwraith, I don't think it was that the lack of sunlight or the presence of the wraiths was harmful to them. Just rambling at this point.
originally posted by max
"Our name is Legion, for we are many". That is a quote from somewhere. The mistwraith reminds me of that quote all the time. I don't like Davien. He studies Arithon like a bug under a microscope. But I know that Janny has some mercurial twists to her characters so I won't out and out hate him till the end. When he sneaked up on Arithon from behind, I wanted to lend the prince my driftwood walking stick so he could knock him in the head a good one. that's what I carry it for! [grinning at ya]
originally posted by Trys
That line was in William Peter Blatty's The Exorcist but I don't know if he borrowed it from somewhere or not.
originally posted by PurplePenny
It is from the Bible, New Testament (Mark ch 5?).
A man who is possessed by a demon throws himself at Jesus and the demon asks what he (Jesus) is going to do with him. Jesus tells the demon voice to shut up and asks who he is. The demon replies "I am legion" meaning that there are many of them possessing the man's body. Jesus throws the demons out of the man into a herd of pigs.