originally posted by Jo
Angus you kind of said what I have been thinking. I have wanted Elaira and Arithon to get it on and just let them have a little bit of happiness without someone spoiling it but I have wondered for some time if Arithon did become King (i'm not convinced he will) then I could not see Elaira being a Queen at all. I'm not really sure why. I suppose her witchy ways and her commoness doesn't make me see a Queen. However Arithon isn't exactly all airs and grace either (think our monachy has blinded me somewhat). In COTM Asandair did tell Arithon not to get involved with her wouldn't it be nice if Arithon could have at least a few chapters where he is not being chased or being asked to save Athera and to just be with her. Poor guy.
I have to say though when I reread these books I tend to ignore the bits about Lysaer as he irritates me.
originally posted by Blue
Twisted Sisters? Good one, Angus! 
originally posted by Angus
Blue:
I couldn't resist once I thought of it. It was just too good! I hated the rock band, but it works perfectly for Morriel's brood.
Jo:
I don't think Janny can be nice to Arithon, at least not yet. Also, I remember something about the royal bloodlines, and the other noble bloodlines, being kept pure, because of their ties to the Paravian mysteries. Someone care to pick up on this point? I don't remember where to look.
I don't think Arithon will be at liberty to love Elaira the way he wants, and needs, to.
originally posted by Neil
Angus, see FAQ on "clans" on this board and Janny herself references 2 parts in the books : Mearn + Talith (FP) and Lysaer + Sulfin (PG).
I disagree about Arithon and Elaira 
As far as Arithon's choices go, for me, much overlooked is the scene with Traithe in TK. Arithon is not a "paravian" but he could be a model for humanity to develop awareness…maybe the priests will steal his best ideas and enforce them on a population via religion?!? But this sesms "false". Is Arithon's fate to save humanity by bringing the paravians back…but once the paravians are back there are still issues with the compact…?
Arithon decides that Davien has "hobbled the compact". Traithe states that Arithon is "choosing for more than one kingdom, for more than the mysteries" re: necromancers. "No living experience could supersede the importance of preserving a greater beacon of truth" "The break with human ties could not be painless".
originally posted by Hunter
Arithon is the last heir of the s'Ffalenn royal family. *If* he embraces kingship and *if* he becomes King of Rathain and both vows and is able to continue the royal line of s'Ffalenn - which means the Compact still holds and continues on - then Arithon, as king, has a duty to ensure the succession. He needs an heir and a spare as the saying goes. And I doubt he'll do that with anyone other than Elaira.
Presumably if Elaira gets to the point of asking for Fellowship intercession to re-assert her free will and void her Koriani vows, this will also remove the "present" from Selidie prophesized by Dakar and allow unencumbered child bearing. Given both Arithon and Elaira have 400+ years to live… that's a lot of time for children… 50? 100? 200?
I hope the make up for the Koriani is better than Twisted Sister's…
As a completely un-related aside, in the film Metal: a Headbanger's journey, Dee Snider, lead singer of Twisted Sister, is called to account by the US Congress on the lyrics of his band and the genre. His articulate comeuppance of Tipper and Al Gore is side-splittingly funny.
originally posted by Angus
To carry the Twisted Sisters joke to its rediculous extreme, I just thought of the theme song for the Koriani, with regard to the Fellowship and the Compact:
"We're Not Going to Take It…Anymooooore"
Man, Twisted Sister was a bad band, but with funny videos. Thank goodness that Seattle came along in the late 1980's.
Sorry, I had to finish this off. I still want to call the Koriani the Twisted Sisters, though.
originally posted by Hunter
Angus - I'll assume by "bad" you mean that the music they made wasn't to your personal taste?
I'm not questioning your either your view or your personal taste, rather wanted to be very careful with the term "bad" as musical appreciation is rather subjective. Bad can also be good, as Michael Jackson might say…
After all, Lysaer views the music that Arithon plays and the Prime Vibration that sources all of Creation and the power of magecraft as "bad".
And, for the record, 'Stay Hungry' had some rather enjoyable rock songs on it…
originally posted by Angus
Hunter:
Yes, Twisted Sister's music was not to my personal taste. However, we digress. This is a WoLaS chat room, not a 1980's glam band chat room.
Anyway, how 'bout "Arithon the Paravian"!? I am re-reading CotMW, and the Black Rose Prophecy does not say a thing about Paravians. It talks about the Fellowship being made whole, and Davien stopping his stubbornness. This will, of course, mean the return of Ciladis (who we have yet to meet), who we know is in some deep sleep far away with Paravians.
originally posted by Hunter
The start "Davien shall hear no reason…" begs the question… whose reason?
From the discussion with Sethvir at Althain Tower in Traitor's Knot, it wouldn't appear that Davien is about to repent and follow the common view of the rest of the Fellowship.
That conversation also showed Davien had disagreed at the start of the Compact… so the question must be asked as to whether Davien had effectively been exiled well before the rebellion… i.e. could Davien have basically been doing his own thing for the entirety of the Third Age? Second Age he was clearly fighting drakespawn and crafting rather useful items like Rockfell to assist that effort. Remember he told Arithon that if his six colleagues chose to stand, then he had to fall. This seems something much earlier than the rebellion…
originally posted by Neil
Yeah I'd assume the Fellowship tried to reason with him…
Sethvir's opinion seems to be that Davien cared too much?
Ahem…using the Myers-Briggs personality approach (I'm not serious…just "playing"…)
Sensing (= f5?)
=========
- A mastery of the facts
- Knowledge of what materials and resources are available
- Appreciation of knowing and doing what works
v.
Intuition (Davien?)
=========
-Insight and attention to meanings
- A grasp of what is possible and what the trends are
- Appreciation of doing what hasn’t been tried before
…but I could just be writng rubbish.
Davien seems miffed (to put it mildly…) about not having "free choice" himself and is not impressed with the drakes approach?
It's ironic that only the F7, whilst ensuring that no humnan born on Athera will be a puppet, are puppets themselves whenever paravian continuity is threatened…and they have no short term solution. And Davien is not even convinced in their long term solution…
Maybe Arithon can help but it might be someting even outside his "scope"? But then Arithon is not drake bound…
originally posted by Angus
What has imprisoned the Fellowship (i.e. "puppets") is humanity, and the Compact. Had humanity not asked (read: demanded) refuge on Athera, then the Fellowship would have been free to deal with the drakespawn, and, I suppose, eventually eradicate them. Then they would have been free to "shuffle off this mortal coil", having done a good job.
However, humanity came begging, and as the Fellowship members were in large part responsible for humanity's condition, the "Plan" got off track, just like every other plan.
This is, in my respectful opinion, the source of Davien's discomfort with the Fellowship's solution. Also, the fact that it hasn't worked is a teeny-tiny problem…
Davien must see the error of his ways. The Rebellion, to understate it, was not Davien's finest work, and certainly he can see the evil caused by that huge lapse of judgment. He must learn that to come to lasting solutions, one must work with others to arrive at the solutions.
Arithon, as always, is the linch pin and wild card all at the same time. He is that random factor in this saga that Janny has used so expertly to resolve problems in ways that were not visible to us who follow the story, but his character is also the anchor, as the heir to Rathain, as mage, as Masterbard, of the plot. Though he is a prisoner of his circumstances (as are we all), he has never been a slave to them, and his solutions to crises are always different than what is expected. He has no abject failures (even Karthan worked out in the end), and has successes that are tinged (a lot!) with sorrow, but there are never any Hollywood endings (which have destroyed a lot of good fantasy and other stories).
This is perhaps the lesson that Arithon's character is trying to teach the clans, the townborn, the Fellowship and Davien, and ultimately us, the readers. Refuse to be ruled by our circumstances, but also work with them, and we can overcome them, eventually, in ways that we cannot foresee.
Now that I am waxing metaphysical, I think I'll stop.
originally posted by Annette
Could contain spoilers for IT.
I actually do not see Elaira ever leaving the sisterhood, I think she will follow the clue her personal crystal gave, she will stay in the order. The best way to untwist the twisted sisters is from the inside, Elaira eventually becomes prime (Lirenda is flawed, Arithon's daughter is not going to be keeping her vows, and Selidie will probably be done in by her own promise on the Waystone, which will leave Elaira the most likely candidate) she can simply change the rules and the way the sisterhood is run. She has to remain Koriani in order to do that. I think Arithon will get his hearts desire that was shown in Kewar, it will just come with a few strings attached. They will both have other responsibilities other than just studying the mysteries.