originally posted by Blue
Spoilers just in case
Interesting the parallels being made between the trips Kamridian and Arithon took through Kewar, the resolutions [Kamridian died, Arithon was able to survive and redeem himself] and the F7's experience with the Dragons [Drakes, what have you].
What I am wondering is, exactly WHAT did Kamridian do that he was unable to reconcile himself to, and die of his conscience for?
Arithon's story we know [or think we do, right Janny? 
] and what he felt guilty about and why he almost died several times for, which was remorse/depression.
The F7 destroyed all of human civilization, but were called by the Dragons to be weapons against the spawn and save the Paravians from extinction. Oddly enough, the beings the F7 were brought in to save saved them in return, and redeemed them.
Fast forward x,000 years, and you have the remnants of humanity discovering Athera, and begging for sanctuary.
How did the F7 react? How would they have reacted had they not been redeemed by the Paravians?
The Dragons, we can presume, were gone by this time - dead or on vacation somewhere. Would they have objected to the human presence?
What was the Paravian reaction to human presence? Did any of them despair when some of the human population went mad? Since Athera is more or less their world, did the Paravians have any objections to human presence? Surely there were seers amongst them who could have predicted that humans were a rather unruly and untameable lot. What would have prompted them to tell the F7 that yes, the humans could stay, but only under certain conditions? Could it have been compassion for the remnants of a once proud, if short-sighted people? Was it the love of Ath that could have prompted them to allow human settlement and try to redeem them as well as the F7? Were they not paying attention to Davien, who likely warned them of the problems humans could cause?
originally posted by Trys
quote:Thank you Blue.Spoilers just in case
originally posted by neilw
"Spoilers just in case".
Sean, You've now given me this thought:
With respect to Davien's "havens". I think that Davien removed the high kingdoms ("Arithon's 500" - the havens) to avoid having to kill humanity (Arithon's Dier Kenton Vale) due to foreseen instability of the social system.
(Davien admits to have failed thus humanity is still at risk).
Maybe this has been discussed before but I have not considered humanity = Arithons "30,000" beforeā¦
If the high kingdoms were in place, there would be no Arithon with shadow or Lysaer with light. (both still needed to deal with mistwraith; Arithon foreseen to redeem the free wraiths(FP))
originally posted by Sean Monahan
I'm not sure how I gave you that thought Neilw, but I'll take whatever credit you give me. : )
Spoilers just in case
Neil, I like the idea as it would make things much clearer as to Davien's motivation.
As an added point, I think you could also consider humanity to be Lysaer's "30,000" as you'd have to say by the series so far that he's prepared to kill them all just to get at Arithon (though he does seem to suffer in private for it).
originally posted by neilw
spillers spillers spillers
I thought maybe it had been discussed and I might have inadvertently been repeating something I had read and then forgotā¦
But for me, Davien toppled the high kings(uprising=havens) to try to save humanity(he failed as did Arithon in Dier Kenton)ā¦back in Mistwraith he was referred to as being against dynastic sucessionā¦recently he has said that he believes the system to be unstableā¦
But how did he come to a different conclusion to the other F7 members?
Was being rendered disporporate a way in which the F7 stopped him from meddling again with Rockfell (he released the iyats)?
originally posted by Juliana
Was the necromancers induction scene at the end of Traitor's Knot the same event that Morriel Prime sees in a vision in one of the early books?
originally posted by Hunter
Hmmā¦ I would have thought the events aboard Evenstar in TK showed Arithon had lost the hard edge of his tongue, courtesy of the fundamental changes from his sojourn with Davien in Kewar?
originally posted by Izzy
Juliana,
I believe that the vision that Morriel had was of Arithon chained but under Koriani power/control/restraintā¦ Yet again I can't recall exactly 
Regards,
CJ
originally posted by Hunter
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Juianaā¦ I don't believe soā¦ in Morriel's vision, Arithon is making fun of his captor(s) - be they Koriani or otherā¦ the passage talks about a tower dungeon and captive in iron. Not sure any iron was used in TK.
In TK, his position on the slab could not really be described as any form of merriment or an opportunity for witty weparteeā¦
originally posted by Juliana
CJ and Hunter- thanks for responding.
I didn't really think it was the same - its just Arithon has been bound and captive so many times I was hoping he would have a respite!!
Juliana
originally posted by neil
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hmm on the slab in TK he had the "form" of an old manā¦not sure at what point he would have lost this if at all (until his mentor came alongā¦)
originally posted by Hunter
SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦
Hmmm, the more I think on itā¦ his phrase was a "phrase whetted to a glib stab of saire", in contempt for his helplessnessā¦ What better way to greet a Sorceror come to share his success than a witty line from a play?
The only wee problem is that the mention in Warhost of Arithon is him being bound captive in iron. In TK, he's bound by cords on the slabā¦ I daresay the cold iron probably does really bad things to the necromancer's spells - it wasn't a clay bowl on his stomach just by chanceā¦
Which means he gets the "joys" of being captured yet againā¦ given the original vision came to Morrielā¦ one wonders where she plays in all thisā¦
originally posted by neil
SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦
Was there no mention of the captors in that scene (In the FP Moriel scrying?)
Arithon now believes that the Koriani want him alive.
To stop the "game" carrying on for ever, he may just decide to do something about itā¦or Elaira may act but Arithon has only reacted to their interfenceā¦and with minimal forceā¦and Davien seems to think the koriani are a minor problemā¦can they catch him (Would Elaira be a sufficient hostage)?
Davien has also responded more menacingly to them.
originally posted by Hunter
SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦SPOILERSā¦
Neil, you raise a good pointā¦ there is no specific mention of captorsā¦ just a bleak tower dungeon and Arithon strapped in iron to a cold slabā¦ natural assumption is that he's been captured and held against his will. Whether he's voluntarily there or not another aspect we can speculate on.
The Koriani failed attempt to catch Davien which resulted in Selidie's hands being horribly burnt showed that Davien is way, way smarter than Selidie. Interesting that Davien has a similar view of the Koriathain to his colleaguesā¦
originally posted by Blue
Maybe the "whetted stab of glib satire" is Arithon's way of saying that he is NOT kinky?
originally posted by neil
SPOLIERS SPOLIERS SPOLIERS SPOLIERS SPOLIERS
Hmm I finally found thisā¦it was in Warhost of Vastmarkā¦I would guess that it has impact on the Koriani since Moriel saw it but she might have avoided this future with her choices in GC.
The previous thing she saw with Lirenda and Arithon did come to pass.
I am now gues Fionn could choose to be a decoyā¦I am guessng he can never really join the light - his face is against him - he has to come around sooner or later on would hope.