originally posted by Neil
I reread the TK end where Daviens mentions that Arithon needed to have "the tempering experience in order to achieve his heart's desire" or something like that…
In theory he wouldn't need a tempering experience to be with Elaira (I think that even dealing with the koriani may not require the level of understanding Arithon is currently getting.
I think Arithon would like to redeem Lysaer. He mentions to Traithe (TK) that just a little bit of initiate training could have protected Lysaer.
Once the curse (on both sides) is dealt with other things fall into place.
Question: Do we really know what a "curse" is?
Could it continue to influence Arithon/Lysaer even if the mistwraith is "resolved". Do the spirits in rockfell need to pass the wheel freely for the curse to be removed ?
Or to put another way…is the curse something that is part of Lysaer/Arithon and completely independant of the mistwraith? If the curse is independant of the mistwraith how on Athera did an bunch of insanse/mad spirits achieve this?!?
originally posted by Trys
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
I thinkn another 'knot' is the cabal betraying Lysaer.
Trys
originally posted by Legion
"Or to put another way…is the curse something that is part of Lysaer/Arithon and completely independant of the mistwraith? If the curse is independant of the mistwraith how on Athera did an bunch of insanse/mad spirits achieve this?!?"
The mistwraith used the knowledge of spellcraft that it stole from Arithon when it attacked Arithon and Lysaer after attacking them outside Ithamon. The curse is the result of a banespell the mistwraith cast using this knowledge so it is seperate to the mistwraith. At least as far as i understand it, after all wouldn't the wraith that cast it have been released to cross fates wheel anyway as Sethvir managed to get Name for the creature when he exorcised it from Lysaer I think, wasn't it from that wraith that the fellowship found out the wraiths used to be human?
originally posted by Elaine Thompson
I was listing possible traitors and knots:
Sulfin Evend - as others have stated.
Dakar, whose prescience "knotted" so many lives (the line comes when they have to interrupte Elaira & Arithon. Dakar feels like a traitor to Arithon.
The Kralovir cabal
Lysaer himself, betraying his better nature (when I credit him with having one)
From Lysaer's pov, his wife & son, as well as the necromancers' cabal.
The S'Brydion, feeing betrayed by Arithon and caught in the knots of the troubles between Lysaer & everyone else.
The Koriani betraying Elaira (not for the first time, but this was *nasty*)and aren't their sigils referred to sometimes as knots?. . Even her quartz which wanted to serve her is betrayed by being used in such a way. I find myself wondering if that quartz is going to play more of a role, perhaps in helping her be free.
BTW, someone was wondering somewhere whether Elaira could have saved herself from the pregnancy. I dont' think so, since it was going to come to pass, even though she'd prepared a potion to avoid pregnancy.
huh. I thought the list was longer, but I seem to have run out.
originally posted by Blue
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
Trys, did the Cabal actually betray Lysaer willingly, or were the Kralovir at work a long time before, knowing or somehow getting the knowledge of the curse, and thinking to use it to advantage?
It was WAY back when in WoV that it is mentioned, almost casually, when Sethvir lets Luhaine and Asandir know that Khardamon is coming back from his trip to Marak and there are free wraiths following him. There is a note that Luhaine was in the process of settling the shades [don't remember the EXACT term Janny used] that had been pulled onto the wrong side of the veil by necromancers, and were winnowing in lost patterns.
Luhaine had to do his part to help protect Athera, and the mention of shades/ghosts/whatever the necromancers were fooling with seemed to be nothing more than a passing mention.
A mistake one should NEVER make with Janny!
I wonder, if way back when, the Kralovir somehow got an indication [how, I could not begin to guess] that there was a powerful curse afoot, and that it could be used, considering the scope of the power Lysaer and Arithon wield, to upset the compact.
You know, set the Princes against one another, and while the F7 is frantically trying to minimize or heal the damage, the Kralovir wait for their opportunity to put THEIR greedy little paws into any unguarded cracks in the compact.
They took advantage of the noise and smoke Lysaer and Arithon were making to slip in, undetected, and start fiddling around. They found some native talent, and guessing at Lysaer's actions, enslaved these native talents [such as Cerebeld] to do their bidding. Cerebeld makes suggestions to get rid of the talented, or the seed is placed there by someone from Erdane, and they convince Lysaer [taking advantage of his uneasiness about magecraft] to hire Athera's answer to Torquemada, Vorrice, who starts the equivalence of the Salem Witch Trials.
Notice in SoM, Lysaer is opposed to enslaving clan convicts, and insists the ones brought to help build Avenor be freed? He didn't seem so righteous in FP, when he condemns Maenol's clansmen to chained slavery in the galleys.
Could it be that the Kralovir used this opportunity to use Lysaer's flaws and force his expulsion from the Compact? That way, the F7 would not be scrutinizing Lysaer as closely, leaving him to the judgment of the Paravians, and thus, the Kralovir tightened their grip.
Lysaer, as we saw in PG, was highly suceptible to suggestion. He was in shock, grieving for Kevor's apparent loss. The mere mention of Arithon set off the curse, and put him back in his place as a Kralovir puppet.
The F7 might have to give Sulfin Evend a hand in keeping an eye on this dude, since he refuses to listen to anyone else. I wonder if a sip of the waters of the Five Centuries Fountain might not be in order for Sulfin Evend? At this moment, as far as we know, he is a mortal man, and though "in his prime" [whatever age that might mean on Athera] he will NOT outlive Lysaer, nor even live long enough to guide, guard, or advise him past his first century.
Lysaer, for all that he is a vain, self-righteous pain in the hindquarters, is still important in the scheme of things.
originally posted by Hunter
SPOILERS… herewith thou art warneth…
My $.02 is that I don't think Lysaer was that choosy regarding his "advisers" and has been very happy to surround himself with boot-lickers, "yes" man and other sycophants… as long as their *apparent* goals aligned with Lysaer's - or they were smitten by his magnificence… I don't think Lysaer knew or was able to discern that there would be people who could use his cause for their own ends.
Lysaer has the driven cause to address the wrongs as he sees them. Lysaer has shown a woefully inadequate understanding of the Compact and Atheran history and a curse-led conscious (?) avoidance of understanding the wider picture. His attempts at partnering with the Koriani show just how inadequate his understanding of the compact and Atheran history is - especially what it means to be thrown out of the Compact.
The conversation that Mearn overhears in FP is the best guide here… the shadowy cabal using Lysaer as a puppet for their own ends.
For this story to reach some resolution, Lysaer must go through the same soul searching and absolution Arithon did in Kewar… that will be very painful I think.
I think Lysaer is Janny showing in painful detail just how important a person's personal perspective is in the world. Asandir tried to give Lysaer an unadulterated view of life on Athera and the injustices to be righted when they first arrived on Athera. Lysaer's were already tainted from his life on Dascen Elur… if Lysaer had been raised on Athera in hiding, his perspective would have been so very, very different… he would also not have had his command of Light but that is becoming increasingly irrelevant as the series progresses…
originally posted by Epilogue
Hi everyone,
Just posting this in hope of a simple answer.
Could someone kindly explain what the powers behind the crown of Rathain are?
It must be something very powerful in order for the F7 to guard it from Arithon on his (partial)corination…
??
originally posted by neilw
I note that when Sulfin is meeting Asandir there is reference to a throne/seat that existed before the 3rd age…since the unicorns and centaurs wouldn't "sit" does this imply that the paravian high kings were athliens?!?
I could be reading this wrong…of course…but curious…
Sethvir has a scar as long as "your arm"…why would Sethvir have closed with necromancers physically…seems risky…if the Necromancers play no further part it's a curious fact or perhaps it just reinforces sethvir's "dislike"…
originally posted by Andy
Possible SPOILERS
I think Sethvir may have closed with a necromancer cult in the past and eradicated it in the manner by which he expected Arithon to use.